Buying Shark Teeth In Bulk And Dentition Sets

[Doctor Mud]

Hey guys,

Someone posted a topic about dentition sets and reconstructed jaws and it got me thinking that it would be a cool project to build one.

As you might tell from the topic title I thought that buying teeth in bulk might be the way to start. I'm sure there are pros and cons. I bet if you got a flat of teeth it would be cheaper than buying individual teeth but you would have to go through many yo get quality and the right positions.

Given their abundance, I was thinking Otodus might be s good target or perhaps a mako? Mako teeth seem to be quite common in tertiary deposits. I would love to build a jaw with several rows of teeth. A paleocarcharodon jaw would look awesome but I bet getting enough of those teeth would be tricky and expensive.

I'd be interested to hear others thoughts and experiences.

Thanks!

[Troodon]

The first question I have is what degree of positional accuracy do you want? It's harder than you think to find individual teeth to fit a Jaw both with position and size. The Tucson show is the place to go that gives one an opportunity to go through tons of flats of teeth. Still a difficult job why people purchase completed dentitions.

There are moroccan dealers at the tucson show that sell associated sets of Otodus that can be used to make a Jaws. Sets come in different level of completeness. I've seen Dr. Gordon Hubbell pick up these sets.

[Paradox1828]

Really excited to see you post this because I have decided to work on a similar project (I think I created the previous topic you are referring to as well). There are two challenges that we are going to face.

1) Finding associated sets of teeth from a common enough species to make it feasible (ideally 4 rows also).

2) Recreating an edentulous jaw to place the teeth in to.

I actually think step two will be the easier one. Using a small inexpensive jaw (from a real shark) as a reference model I was planning on making a larger jaw out of an epoxy putty (not a challenging task given that I am a dentist).

Moroccan teeth are plentiful and can be had by the kilogram online (and are usually in decent shape) but many hundreds of teeth will need to be purchased to get one set.

I was really hoping to do a bull shark jaw but again finding teeth to fill a jaw will be tough.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Paradox1828

[Paradox1828]

Here are a few beautiful jaws from my neck of the woods. The Florida Natural History Museum has these on display in Gainesville:

Edited August 18, 2015 by Paradox1828

[Paradox1828]

This was an associated set of meg teeth I picked up on ebay a year ago. One row... but this is the approximate level of positional accuracy I'd like to achieve on the set I make (but with a more affordable species).

This was the last jaw I built, not a true recreation, more of a creative display option. Also having only one row of teeth is limiting.

[Paradox1828]

bulk teeth retailer: http://www.vlcrafts.com/bulk-fossil-shark-teeth/

[Ramo]

One of my kids made this display this year for the county fair. It is more of a display piece like Paradox has but on a smaller scale. This is a composite of squalicorax teeth from one location, and they are set on a wooden "jaw" based on size and slant with paleobond.

It takes a lot of teeth to do just the single row!

[Paradox1828]

Ramo, your kid is a better person than I because I went display side out even though I knew it was wrong. He knows better! haha

[Paradox1828]

A few more photos I have collected from internet sites for inspiration:

[Ramo]

Paradox, Just so you know, viewing your set was the inspiration for this project! She knows her shark teeth, and is better at finding them than I am by far!

Ramo

[Al Dente]

Given their abundance, I was thinking Otodus might be s good target or perhaps a mako? Mako teeth seem to be quite common in tertiary deposits. I would love to build a jaw with several rows of teeth. A paleocarcharodon jaw would look awesome but I bet getting enough of those teeth would be tricky and expensive.

I have attempted to build some partial tooth sets with teeth that I have found. It is a good learning experience.

If you are attempting to do an accurate jaw with all the teeth in the proper scale you have a difficult job. Some tooth positions can be scarce and then trying to find the correct size can be very tedious. You will have more success if you don't try to build the "perfect" set.

The Elasmo web site has some reconstructed fossil dentitions. You can find them here: http://www.elasmo.com/genera/reconstruct/the_recon.html

Under their methods you can see they used around 1000 isolated teeth for their Cosmopolitodus and Isurus reconstructions. They had to resize the images for some tooth positions.

[Al Dente]

This was an associated set of meg teeth I picked up on ebay a year ago.

How confident are you that this is an associated set? I'm a little skeptical about this being associated. The preservation differences in the teeth makes me think they are from different sites.

[RJB]

Hey Dr Mud,,, have I got a deal for you!!! Im going to send you a private message.

RB

[Doctor Mud]

The first question I have is what degree of positional accuracy do you want? It's harder than you think to find individual teeth to fit a Jaw both with position and size. The Tucson show is the place to go that gives one an opportunity to go through tons of flats of teeth. Still a difficult job why people purchase completed dentitions.

There are moroccan dealers at the tucson show that sell associated sets of Otodus that can be used to make a Jaws. Sets come in different level of completeness. I've seen Dr. Gordon Hubbell pick up these sets.

Excellent points Troodon.

I think I would be leaning towards more anatomical correctness than display piece or eye appeal. I would base my reconstruction on the tooth sets on The likes of Elasmo.com ( mentioned by Al Dente in a post here).

I hear you about the difficulty of sourcing the right teeth. I've been building up a transition set for "mega sharks" and getting similar size and or position is tricky.

Having money and or access to large quantities of teeth seems to be the solution. A Tucson situation like that would sure help. I'm looking at visiting the show but probably won't make it till 2017.

How much do those sets go for?

Edited August 18, 2015 by Doctor Mud

[Doctor Mud]

Really excited to see you post this because I have decided to work on a similar project (I think I created the previous topic you are referring to as well). There are two challenges that we are going to face.

1) Finding associated sets of teeth from a common enough species to make it feasible (ideally 4 rows also).

2) Recreating an edentulous jaw to place the teeth in to.

I actually think step two will be the easier one. Using a small inexpensive jaw (from a real shark) as a reference model I was planning on making a larger jaw out of an epoxy putty (not a challenging task given that I am a dentist).

Moroccan teeth are plentiful and can be had by the kilogram online (and are usually in decent shape) but many hundreds of teeth will need to be purchased to get one set.

I was really hoping to do a bull shark jaw but again finding teeth to fill a jaw will be tough.

Hi Paradox!

Yes it was your post indeed :-)

It's been a dream lingering in my sub-consciousness and now I realise I'd like to make it a reality! Thanks for the motivation.

Those certainly are some amazing pictures you have uploaded and really hit home how the effort made to source the right teeth and mount them is allllll worth it.

I agree with your assessment of the challenge that lies ahead. Seems like you are a lot closer than I am!

I love your meg display.

[Doctor Mud]

I have attempted to build some partial tooth sets with teeth that I have found. It is a good learning experience.

If you are attempting to do an accurate jaw with all the teeth in the proper scale you have a difficult job. Some tooth positions can be scarce and then trying to find the correct size can be very tedious. You will have more success if you don't try to build the "perfect" set.

The Elasmo web site has some reconstructed fossil dentitions. You can find them here: http://www.elasmo.com/genera/reconstruct/the_recon.html

Under their methods you can see they used around 1000 isolated teeth for their Cosmopolitodus and Isurus reconstructions. They had to resize the images for some tooth positions.

Wise words Al Dente, thanks for sharing your experience. We are at the mercy of the fossil record with this challenge.

Do you have any pictures of your sets for us to drool over?

Edited August 18, 2015 by Doctor Mud

[Doctor Mud]

One of my kids made this display this year for the county fair. It is more of a display piece like Paradox has but on a smaller scale. This is a composite of squalicorax teeth from one location, and they are set on a wooden "jaw" based on size and slant with paleobond.

It takes a lot of teeth to do just the single row!

What an amazing display! We're these all teeth found by your son or daughter??

[Paradox1828]

How confident are you that this is an associated set? I'm a little skeptical about this being associated. The preservation differences in the teeth makes me think they are from different sites.

You are correct i should use the propper term.

From the elasmo link provided above I see they helped explain it:

"There is no consistent terminology when it comes to reconstructions of disarticulated teeth.

Welton & Farish (1993) defined three reconstructed tooth-set types:

• Natural tooth set — "the complete upper and lower dental series preserved in life position such that there is no question as their rowgroup order".

• Associated tooth set — "a disarticulated tooth set from one individual."

• Artificial tooth set — "dental series reconstructed from the teeth of many different individuals".

  Cunningham (2000) followed this naming convention.

so based on those definitions my set is a "artificial tooth set"

[Ramo]

All those teeth were found by my family (2 daughters, a son, my wife and myself) over a period of years. We collected a lot of teeth from the one location. (numerous species) We thought it would be a never-ending supply, but erosion, and vegetation have changed to location so that it only gives up an occasional tooth. Let it be a lesson to collect a hot spot as much as you can while it's producing!

[siteseer]

Troodon, everyone,

If I were going to build a serious dentition from teeth I would be buying, I would go with Otodus too. As you know, you can go to the Tucson show and buy various matrix chunks with associated teeth in them from Morocco. Depending on how many teeth and how the exposed teeth look, it might be a few hundred dollars. You'd have to prep out the teeth so that's some time on top of that but buying hundreds of makos would be even more expensive even if you could get them for a buck a piece (and that's impossible now).

Let's assume you bought a Moroccan block and you ended up with most of an upper quadrant, some of the other and a mix of lower teeth. These days, it's getting easier/cheaper to get access to a 3D printer. You can take measurements of a right upper second anterior, for example, get a mirror-image of it for the left upper second anterior, and then print it out in plastic. You can paint it to match as a placeholder or use it as a model for the next time you can get a look at a large lot of Otodus teeth. You just look for a tooth that matches up to it - or a tooth of the right shape slightly smaller or slightly larger than it.

If I happened to live near a rich shark tooth-producing locality, I would try to build a dentition of whatever common species comes out of that locality or the one for which you can get good modern relative photos or jaws. Good reference material is a must in any case. I've seen a few fossil sand tiger jaws from Florida sites, a few of Otodus from Morocco, and a hastalis jaw with teeth from the Sharktooth Hill Bonebed. The thing to do in that case is not to try to start with the larger teeth (i.e. 2 3/4 hastalis anteriors). I would start with whatever the medium size is for adults of the species. Otherwise, you're looking for less-common teeth at every position rather than average-size teeth which you would be more likely to find at every position. The toughest teeth to find would be the symphyseals, if present, and the last couple of posterior files or maybe the third upper anterior of the right size, if applicable. Just keep in mind that there is a little wiggle room with the tooth size and shape variation. You don't have to have exact matches. The other layer of difficulty is having all the teeth largely uniform in color but a few teeth "off-color" isn't a crime if they're from the same site.

Jess

The first question I have is what degree of positional accuracy do you want? It's harder than you think to find individual teeth to fit a Jaw both with position and size. The Tucson show is the place to go that gives one an opportunity to go through tons of flats of teeth. Still a difficult job why people purchase completed dentitions.

There are moroccan dealers at the tucson show that sell associated sets of Otodus that can be used to make a Jaws. Sets come in different level of completeness. I've seen Dr. Gordon Hubbell pick up these sets.

[siteseer]

Yes, I knew a collector who had four megalodon teeth he really liked and wanted to find teeth that fit with them. I think he was just going for upper teeth and he had a very hard time - not sure he ever found even one one other tooth he was satisfied with. That's why you go with a smaller, more common species. Even for South Carolina divers, it can take years to find enough teeth to start with.

It takes a lot of teeth to do just the single row!

[Troodon]

The Otodus sets I was referring to that Dr Hubbell purchased were loose associated sets of (50 to 80 teeth) from Sahara Overland. Not cheap but if he purchased must be good. Over the years I've seen others also purchase these sets.

[Doctor Mud]

I just received a bulk lot of teeth through a trade with RB - thanks RB!

First I need to identify them. I've sorted them and have about 750 that can be used in a jaw. Looks like 3 species, but I need a good reference for IDing.

Elasmo.com seems to have some good info for IDing. Any other references people can suggest?

I could then sort into species and positions.

The next step for me would be to get my hands on some shark jaws. A lot of the teeth seem to be from Sand Tigers, so a modern equivalent would be good. This would help me to see how the teeth are set on the jaw and give me something to model the jaw off

I need to check what the laws are about importing shark jaws into Australia. I know that Great White material is illegal but others; I don't know. Replicas are another option, couldn't find a sand tiger replica online.

I was thinking I could build the jaw using a wire armature and some sort of putty.

Here's one layer of teeth in the box I sorted the teeth into.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Doctor Mud

[RJB]

Hey Doctor Mud, you've got some purty good timing. I just got a call yesterday from a guy who wanted those teeth! Lucky you. Glad you like em.

RB

[Cainozoic]

Does anyone have any pictures of a complete set of Carcharias taurus and Cosmopolitodus (Isurus) hastalis that I can use to reconstruct a tooth set from? I am trying to recreate a single row.

 

I like the colour difference as I do not want to pretend that they are from the same individual. 

 

Thanks for any help you can provide.