Real Ceratarges trilobite?

[indominus rex]

I found this Ceratarges trilobite online and I was wondering whether it was authentic because these trilobites have a tendency to be faked.

[Kane]

You might wish to ask the seller for more closeup pictures as it is a bit challenging to tell at this scale.

 

Sometimes these are not entirely fake, but will have some reconstruction. Be on the lookout for a discovery crack in the matrix, which may be one way of confirming authenticity (but not a foolproof one).

 

If it is authentic, it is in not the greatest of shape. Many of the interesting diagnostic features are absent, possibly due to poor preparation, bad preservation, or (if fake) poor attention to detail. Pictured here is a Ceratarges spinosus from the same region, appearing on display at the Field Museum in Chicago:

[indominus rex]

5 minutes ago, Kane said:

You might wish to ask the seller for more closeup pictures as it is a bit challenging to tell at this scale.

 

Sometimes these are not entirely fake, but will have some reconstruction. Be on the lookout for a discovery crack in the matrix, which may be one way of confirming authenticity (but not a foolproof one).

Ok thanks, I will ask

[RJB]

I bought one of these many years ago and then later on i realized that the intire back half was fake.  Not saying yours is fake, just relating my experience. 

 

RB

[indominus rex]

The seller said that its from alnif but he said he does not any other "representative photos of the trilobite" anyone knows what that means?

[indominus rex]

I also found this and I know it is fake but how much of it is fake?

[Tidgy's Dad]

I see plates like this fairly often. 

Usually the trilobites are genuine but individually added to a large slab. 

often the only one that is faked would be the biggest or central 'rare' specimen, in this case the Ceratarges.

Many Devonian trilobites are found in  the regions around Alnif and then taken and prepped there. 

 

[Kane]

37 minutes ago, indominus rex said:

The seller said that its from alnif but he said he does not any other "representative photos of the trilobite" anyone knows what that means?

I'd be extra leery about it now. If the seller is unable or unwilling to take more pictures and share them, that would send up a red flag for me.

 

As for the second piece, these are definitely too evenly spaced out to be a real assemblage. There may be some real ones in there, but it is hard to tell from pictures alone. It is not uncommon that complete specimens are "grafted" to a slab to increase the density of the assemblage in an attempt to increase value. In poorly grafted examples, the matrix will appear to have more than one colour, but it is not too difficult to fake a single coloured matrix. That being said, the trilobites may be real individually. The Crotalocephalus are fairly common and not worthwhile to fake.

[indominus rex]

33 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

I see plates like this fairly often. 

Usually the trilobites are genuine but individually added to a large slab. 

often the only one that is faked would be the biggest or central 'rare' specimen, in this case the Ceratarges.

Many Devonian trilobites are found in  the regions around Alnif and then taken and prepped there. 

 

I can't argue with you on that, I jut wanted to find out which is real and which is fake. And what are the chances that every single large piece like this in the middle is a Diacranurus trilobite. I will ask again the seller for images of the head of the trilobite and thanks for the help and advice guys.

[JohnBrewer]

1 hour ago, Kane said:

I'd be extra leery about it now. If the seller is unable or unwilling to take more pictures and share them, that would send up a red flag for me

Yes, me too. 

[LordTrilobite]

These photos simply are inadequate. If the seller doesn't want to show any better photos, just pass on the item. It's not worth the gamble.

[Wrangellian]

I agree with Olof. It's one thing for a Forum member to post dinky photos, but a fossil dealer has no excuse.

[indominus rex]

He said he is now in Corse on vacation that's why does not have any better pictures.....

[Kane]

I would let this one go. The matrix appears to be duotone, which may be suggestive of a composite.

[RJB]

I use to buy and sell these many many moons ago.  I called them 'trilo pizza plates'. 

 

RB

[indominus rex]

2 hours ago, RJB said:

I use to buy and sell these many many moons ago.  I called them 'trilo pizza plates'. 

 

RB

I like pizza roles

[Fitch1979]

@indominus rex: the both ceratarges sp. on your pictures look really fishy to me. Because the brownish layer of the devonian there in Morocco (they call it the 'couche rouge' in Morocco) isn't quite known for its ceratargesses. Most of them would appear in other devonian layers which are flawless light grey matrix or light grey with other calcite veins or spots of iron oxide sometimes. 

 

Many fakes as well are not being entirely prepped - just like the ones you show. The creators believe the extra matrix to it makes it 'seem more real' and they don't have to reconstruct the piece entirely.

 

cheers

[Douvilleiceras]

Just a note, but the central spiny trilobite in the pizza is not a Ceratarges (Order Lichida) - it's a rather crude cast of Dicranurus monstrosus from the Order Odontopleurida. As a rare, elegant, and spiny trilobite, casts of Dicranurus are a major product of Moroccan fakers along with fakes of many other trilobite varieties from the Devonian.

 

For those interested, here's a link to the paper that described Ceratarges from Morocco: PDF LINK

[indominus rex]

2 hours ago, Douvilleiceras said:

Just a note, but the central spiny trilobite in the pizza is not a Ceratarges (Order Lichida) - it's a rather crude cast of Dicranurus monstrosus from the Order Odontopleurida. As a rare, elegant, and spiny trilobite, casts of Dicranurus are a major product of Moroccan fakers along with fakes of many other trilobite varieties from the Devonian.

 

For those interested, here's a link to the paper that described Ceratarges from Morocco: PDF LINK

I know, Dicranurus are faked very often and the cast look all exactly the same.

[piranha]

On 12/31/2017 at 5:50 AM, Kane said:

Pictured here is a Ceratarges spinosus from the same region, appearing on display at the Field Museum in Chicago:

 

 

This trilobite is Ceratarges ziregensis.  "Ceratarges spinosus" has never been described in the published literature and is not a valid species. 

Unfortunately, FMNH and many other reputable institutions make mistakes, usually emanating from erroneous listings at commercial websites.

 

 

list of published species:

 

Ceratarges aries VAN VIERSEN & PRESCHER 2011

Ceratarges armatus (GOLDFUSS 1839)

Ceratarges armatus armatus (GOLDFUSS 1839)

Ceratarges armatus geesiana (R. RICHTER 1909)

Ceratarges bergicus BASSE & MÜLLER 2004

Ceratarges berolinensis (R. RICHTER 1909)

Ceratarges cognatus VAN VIERSEN 2006

Ceratarges faouensis MORZADEC 1969

Ceratarges kabaniensis SPASSKY 1991

Ceratarges koumalii VAN VIERSEN & PRESCHER 2011

Ceratarges ziregensis VAN VIERSEN & PRESCHER 2011

[Fitch1979]

On 3-1-2018 at 10:29 AM, Douvilleiceras said:

Just a note, but the central spiny trilobite in the pizza is not a Ceratarges (Order Lichida) - it's a rather crude cast of Dicranurus monstrosus from the Order Odontopleurida. As a rare, elegant, and spiny trilobite, casts of Dicranurus are a major product of Moroccan fakers along with fakes of many other trilobite varieties from the Devonian.

 

For those interested, here's a link to the paper that described Ceratarges from Morocco: PDF LINK

yup! I was to fast on that one - but it still 's a fake too