Adam Hamby Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 Found in Holmes County, Mississippi in an area heavily used by Native Americans. This area was identified as a trading post by an archeological excavation per MDOT. Can someone help identify this?
ynot Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 Can You show the edges and other side? Also (in second picture lower left, third picture upper right) there is a strip that looks folded over on itself. Can You take a close up of this feature?
Adam Hamby Posted January 27, 2018 Author Posted January 27, 2018 At first glance at the “bottom” (light gray area) my guess was palm. However the “fibers” in their arrangement do not resemble others I have found.
TqB Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 Teredino (shipworm bivalve) borings in wood? 5 Tarquin
caldigger Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 I think TqB has it. If palm roots, the "fibers" would be much more dense. Good call! 1
Tidgy's Dad Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 Yup, looks like shipworm to me, too. 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend.
abyssunder Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 The diameter of the tubes / borings is under 1mm, so it's not enough for Teredo / Teredolites (~1cm). Maybe they are close to Trypanites . 4 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library
TqB Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 34 minutes ago, abyssunder said: The diameter of the tubes / borings are under 1mm, so it's not enough for Teredo / Teredolites (~1cm). Maybe they are close to Trypanites . That's more likely. The matrix doesn't look like wood anyway, just sediment. 1 Tarquin
abyssunder Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 That was my thought also. The matrix looks like a sedimentary rock, so it could be a good hardground for Trypanites isp. (worms). " More recently it has been argued (Plewes, 1996; Palmer et al., 1997) that Trypanites is best confined to cylindrical borings that are much longer than wide (ratio usually greater than 20:1) in lithic substrates. Smaller borings that gently expand into the substrate (cylindroclavate borings), and which are often encountered in both lithic and biogenic substrates as far back as the Cambrian, are more properly referred to Paleosabella Clarke, 1921. (...) " excerpt from Cole, A.R., Palmer, T.J. 1999. Middle Jurassic worm borings, and a new giant ichnospecies of Trypanites from the Bajocian/Dinantian unconformity, southern England. Proceedings of the Geologists' Association. 10 (3): 203–209 image from here " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library
ynot Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 In the first picture there is either stratification or growth rings. Either way it does not fit with worm boring.
Wrangellian Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 I noticed the first pic too, looks more fibrous to me. My first thought was bryozoans of some sort, but I could be way off on that.
TqB Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 11 hours ago, ynot said: In the first picture there is either stratification or growth rings. Either way it does not fit with worm boring. 9 hours ago, Wrangellian said: I noticed the first pic too, looks more fibrous to me. My first thought was bryozoans of some sort, but I could be way off on that. I've changed my mind, that's true and does knock the borings idea. I think the fibres may be too narrow for bryozoan though there's certainly a resemblance. Possibly something spongy? It's a really intriguing one, I'd like to see one or two more really clear photos and an age would help... Tarquin
Rockwood Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 The crystals in the rock look metamorphic to me. You don't suppose the fibrous texture is serpentine ?
ynot Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Rockwood said: The crystals in the rock look metamorphic to me. You don't suppose the fibrous texture is serpentine ? Serpentine is a regional metamorphic rock, so no it is not serpentine.
Rockwood Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 35 minutes ago, ynot said: regional metamorphic rock Could you elaborate ?
ynot Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Rockwood said: Could you elaborate ? Be happy to. Serpentinite is a metamorphic rock that is mostly composed of serpentine group minerals. Serpentine group minerals antigorite, lizardite, and chrysotile are produced by the hydrous alteration of ultramafic rocks. These are igneous rocks that are composed of olivine and pyroxene (peridotite, pyroxenite). And by regional I mean it covers large areas like marble or slate, which are also regional metamorphic rocks. 2
Rockwood Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 Basalt flows often smother fossiliferous rocks. The fibers could not be transported that far during the process ?
ynot Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rockwood said: Basalt flows often smother fossiliferous rocks. The fibers could not be transported that far during the process ? For the "tubes" to be filled with igneous rock and then be altered to a (highly) metamorphic serpentine the matrix rock would have been altered also. The whole scenario seems far fetched to Me.
Rockwood Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 24 minutes ago, ynot said: For the "tubes" to be filled with igneous rock and then be altered to a (highly) metamorphic serpentine the matrix rock would have been altered also. The whole scenario seems far fetched to Me. I am confident that it comes as no surprise that I would come up with something like it.
Max-fossils Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 19 hours ago, Echinoid said: + 1 for worm borings "Shipworms" are not worms like earthworms or so... Shipworms are a kind of bivalve that can bore through wood/stone. As the name suggests, they are often found in ships, and are dangerous as they destabilize the wood of the ship. Luckily most ships are made of metal now, so that is no longer really a problem. Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils
Plantguy Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 Very nice finds. Although I agree with the others the matrix looks more like a sedimentary rock it did make me think of this inherited sample of petrified wood with borings from nearby Arkansas that looks somewhat similar to your specimen in both coloration and some of the longer linear boring arrangements--but there are some definite differences and has much different boring meanders. You can also actually see some of the individual growth rings of the wood in places in my sample. I wish I had some more details on where my piece came from and its age but I don't unfortunately. I wish we could see clearer details of the matrix in yours and the borings/linear features. I wonder what yours would look like if it was polished up at all and if the matrix between the borings and a cross section thru it would show any hidden details about its composition. Thanks for showing us--very cool piece. Regards, Chris 2
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