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Questions about any large and currently unnamed Ctenacanthiformes sharks known
Joseph Fossil posted a topic in Questions & Answers
As I have been researching large ctenacanthiform sharks from North America, I've been wondering if there are any known globally that are currently unnamed. I definitely know of the large Ctenacanthiformes Saivodus stratus (found in both what is now North America and Great Britain), the large Ctenacanthiform from the Permian Kaibab formation in Arizona, and the 'Texas supershark' (a likely large species of Gilkmanius) from the Pennsylvanian Texas Graham formation (all three as larger or larger than an adult Great White Shark (Carcharodon carcharias)). But are there any large ctenacanthiformes (at least in size comparable to a modern day adult Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias)) currently unnamed that are also known? Ctenacanthiformes are known from North America, Greenland, Europe, Asia, and South America. https://www.mindat.org/taxon-P34476.html Even though study of Ctenacanthiformes as a whole is just starting to become more through within the past few decades, I'm wondering if anyone on the forum is aware of any currently unnamed Ctenacanthiform fossils from areas outside of North America of Great White Shark (Carcharodon carcharias)) size? -
Over the last two years I have been able to collect a small but diverse group of shark and other chondrichthyan teeth from Pennsylvanian deposits in Illinois. Actually, all but one of the teeth are from one exposure of the La Salle Limestone of the Bond Formation- the other tooth was found in some roadside rip rap limestone in Central Illinois which seems to share many species with the La Salle, but unfortunately I have no way of determining the exact origin. Here is the first tooth, this is the one collected from rip rap in northern Champaign County. It is a cladodont type tooth, although unfortunately most of the main tooth and some of the cusps are missing. The tooth is 15 mm across at the widest point.
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Yesterday I had the pleasure of getting out for one of the nicest opening days of the fossil hunting season at Mazonia-Braidwood State Fish and Wildlife Area that I’ve experienced. The sun was shining, the ground was relatively dry and temps were in the 40s-50s. And I only encountered 1 tick! I ran into a few other collectors over the course of the day, including @connorp. The park was mostly quiet as usual, with the sounds of birds and passing cars nearby, as well as the distant rumble of trains and planes. My hunting area for this trip was south of Monster Lake- after getting nearly skunked when it came to interesting fossils the last two years I wanted to go back to a site that had given me more success in the past. It’s about a one mile hike to get down to the collecting area, although I was able to pick up a few concretions on the way there. I’ve been using an 8 inch wide plastic rake the last few trips to clear leaves and litter from the ground and I have found it really effective. It’s a full length rake like this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ames-60-in-handle-Collector-8-in-Poly-Shrub-Rake-2915900/204476248 so maneuvering it in the underbrush can be annoying sometimes, but since I’m already trying to fit a 6’3” frame through there it doesn’t make it notably more difficult to get around. Here are a couple concretions in an area where I didn’t clear things up: I didn’t find too many already split concretions- a few dirty plants I’ll share once I’ve had a chance to clean them up and some mystery things that may or may not prove to be anything (and one exciting find I will detail below). As usual, there were also plenty of split Essexella blobs to be found, but I didn’t bring any of those home. Towards the end of the day, I found myself at the base of a small hill that was veritably covered in both split and unsplit concretions. At first I thought it might have been a dump pile from a collector back in the day, but the number of unopened smaller concretions made me question that, as well as the next find I made- a very partial Tullimonstrum gregarium! It’s a wee one, but only the second example of our state fossil that I’ve found. Here is a wider shot of the hill where I found it: By this time I was starting to get pretty sore, so I decided to head back. I ended up with around 2 gallons of concretions, a pretty average day at Pit 11 for me. Here is my bucket at the end of the day: I’ve got about 10 gallons of other concretions in the queue ahead of these, so it may be a while before I start freezing and thawing them, but I will work on getting them cleaned up and ready to go in the meantime. As @Mark Kmiecik famously said about hunting Pit 11, I left “bruised and abused and grinning from ear to ear”. It’s a tough experience, but you can count on me keeping at it as long as I can. Anybody else planning to make it out to the park this week?
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- carboniferous
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i’ve been doing some research on places i could go fossil hunting around illinois and sugar run looks really interesting. But admittedly i don’t know a whole lot about it or really about fossil hunting in general, so any tips or advice y’all have, like any particular road cuts or other locations that i should go to, or what places i shouldn’t go to, would be cool. more importantly though, from what i’ve read, fossils from that formation generally aren’t eroded out of their matrix, which will be my first time dealing with this. Is there any way to know like which rocks to split, or where in a rock to split in order to best expose a fossil without damaging it? any help is very appreciated!
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are there any good places to find trilobite fossils near chicago?
Rh_4m posted a topic in Questions & Answers
i’m pretty novice when it comes to my fossil hunting experience, i’ve done a few trips but nothing crazy. During most of those trips, i always had the goal in mind of finding a trilobite fossil, but, as of now, i haven’t had much success other than a partial pygidium. i think the main problem for me is that i don’t really know where to look. When i try to do research online i don’t really find much. the most pat payoff i’ve had is looking through old geology surveys. I know that finding a trilobite, let alone a complete one, is very rare, but are there any places in particular that I could go to that could yield them? anything that’s like 6 hours away from chicago would do, and also ideally it’s at a place where i don’t have to worry about the law getting on my back. and as long as i’m here, are there any good resources around for finding fossil hunting locations? like websites, PDFs or books? -
I collected this trilobite pygidium in the Galena Group (Upper Ordovician) of Illinois. I don't immediately recognize it, especially since it is just a mold. It is fairly large. My best guess is Isotelus but I was hoping one of the trilobite experts here might have a better idea. Thanks for any help.
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I am planning a visit to the Oglesby site over the next few weeks. This will be my first trip where fossils aren't already eroded out of their matrix. Does anyone have any advice for me? Should I spend time attempting to break rock on site, or try to observe fossils already exposed? Are there any concerns with bringing tools to sites like this? Hammering rocks doesn't quite feel like surface collecting, and I would very much like to avoid getting into any trouble with any authorities. Let me know your thoughts. Im excited to give this a shot and will post any of my finds!
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This concretion opened up recently and I'm pretty stumped. My best guess is that this is a lateral view of some sort of pollen organ, but I haven't been able to find a match in literature. I was hoping someone here might have an idea? @paleoflor @RCFossils @fiddlehead
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- carboniferous
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so just recently i was going on a trip to look for fossils, trilobites specifically. On the trip i was able to find plenty of goodies; brachiopods, bryozoa, etc… But i never found any trilobites—well, except a possible pygidium. I did my digging at Savanna, IL, which from what I could find was known for finding lots of trilobites; and complete ones at that. Was I doing something wrong on my trip? I guess what i’m asking is there some way to more easily find trilobite fossils? Like, is there a way to tell what areas are likely to have trilobite fossils or what rocks would have them? on a similar note i’ve seen plenty of instances of people splitting rocks and finding lots of fossils that way; but i found almost all of my fossils just sitting in the open; any time i tried splitting a rock it would just shatter into bits, not to mention i wouldn’t really find anything inside. Is there a way to tell which rocks might have a fossil of some sorts in it? Or a way to split a rock so that any fossil in it would be exposed. Or i guess the better question would be what kinds of rocks are even worth trying to split into, and does this change based on a given locality? any advice would really be appreciated!
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Yesterday I took my second trip of the year to do some collecting at Pit 11. A little chilly, but once the sun came out it was a nice day. An idea of how overgrown it is, even this early in the year. The first find of the day A productive hillside A nice handful of concretions I broke my personal record and was able to collect about 3 gallons in the 6 hours I collected. Not many open finds, although I did find this fairly nice Annularia, hopefully a sign of things to come!
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- illinois
- mazon creek
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Hello, I have two slabs that I would like ID help with, one is a hash plate with trilobite cephalons and pygidiums, the other has a crinoid calyx/crown. I'm told they were collected in Reynolds County of Illinois, USA. I did some googling and I don't think there is a Reynolds county in Illinois, but there is a Reynolds village in Rock Island/Mercer County Illinois which is what I'm guessing the seller meant. Anyways, assuming this info, the geological map of Illinois suggests that this locality consists of the Tradewater Formation which is Pennsylvanian in age: https://isgs.illinois.edu/content/bedrock-geology-map-illinois The crinoid calyx is small at just 1 cm across not including the very long primaxil spines. From what I've seen, primaxils produced as spines is a feature that seems uncommon in most geological periods but commonly seen in many Pennsylvanian crinoids. So I'm more convinced that the crinoid is Pennsylvanian. On the other hand, the trilobite cephalons (also measuring about 1 cm) look very much like calymene/flexicalymene which are Silurian/Ordovician genera, so I'm a little more doubtful here. Anyways, here are photos. First the crinoid plate: And the trilobite hash: Thank you.
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Hello. I found this piece during my first visit to Mazon last year and just got around to asking about it. I believe it may be tracks of some sort, as they look vaguely like other arthropod ichnofossils. I was wondering if anyone may be able to confirm my suspicions and possibly ID what kind of animal it could be. I understand this second part is difficult without anything else to go off of, and I apologize for lower camera quality than the other images I’ve seen here. Thank you!
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Tips for Fossil hunting in the St. Louis Area of Missouri
Joseph Fossil posted a topic in General Fossil Discussion
Recently, I've been thinking about conducting an exploratory fossil hunting trip in the St. Louis area of Missouri. I've never been there before, but I've heard there is a lot of caves and limestone outcrops near the city. I've also heard there is a decent amount of Ordovician and Mississippian fossils in the area. I'm just wondering if anyone's been fossil hunting in the St. Louis area before and what fossils can be found there? -
Hey all, I believe I found a fossil. I came across this while rockhounding. I found this in Monroe County, Valmeyer, IL in the USA. I found it in a stream bed, with running water. Chiefly, and this may help, I found many imprints of seashells on rocks. I also found a complete bivalve (I think that is the term for both top and bottom) seashell that had crystallized into quartz. I have pictures at this link, along with a picture that has measurements in 3 forms. I tried to upload to the forum but there was issues doing so. If it matters, the surface feels bumpy and unlike any rock I've ever seen texture wise. I'm fairly certain it's a fossil..it sounds different on the darker areas when I tap on it. Thank you for any help. https://imgur.com/a/S2Fg51T
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I found this along the Fox River in Elgin, IL. At first I thought it was a stromatoporoid fossil (I find them everywhere in this area), but upon closer inspection I couldn't see anything that looked like pillars or laminae. Someone suggested chaetetid sponge, or a stromatoporoid that was distorted by silicification. I can't find any photos that look like my spec. except dino bone and we don't have those in northern Illinois. Is it a natural formation, crazy looking oolites? I'm totally stumped! More pics
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Saivodus striatus and the Graham formation Gilkmanius: Which one was bigger?
Joseph Fossil posted a topic in Questions & Answers
The Ctenacanthiformes are an impressive group of prehistoric sharks, emerging in the Devonian period before surviving the two Devonian extinction events that gave rise to the Carboniferous. During the Carboniferous, the Ctenacanthiformes diversified rapidly, even becoming some of the Carboniferous Oceans Apex Predators. But of all the members of this impressive (yet almost unknown to the general public) group, two species stand out as especially impressive and awe inspiring - Saivodus striatus and the Graham formation Gilkmanius (this species currently doesn't have a name yet). Duffin, C. J., & Ginter, M. (2006). Comments on the Selachian genus Cladodus Agassiz, 1843. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, 26(2), 253–266. https://doi.org/10.1671/0272-4634(2006)26[253:cotsgc]2.0.co;2 Ivanov, A. O. (2005, September 1). The revision of "Cladodus" occidentalis, a late Palaeozoic ctenacanthiform shark. Acta Palaeontologica Polonica. Retrieved December 29, 2022, from https://www.academia.edu/49013029/The_revision_of_Cladodus_occidentalis_a_late_Palaeozoic_ctenacanthiform_shark Artist reconstruction of the skeleton and size of the Graham formation (Upper Pennsylvanian, Carboniferous) Gilkmanius sp. By J. Maisey. Image Source: https://www.amnh.org/explore/news-blogs/research-posts/ancient-supershark-fossils-found-in-texas Maisey, J. G., Bronson, A. W., Williams, R. R., & McKinzie, M. (2017). A Pennsylvanian ‘supershark’ from Texas. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, 37(3). https://doi.org/10.1080/02724634.2017.1325369 Artist reconstruction of an Adult Saivodus striatus and its size compared to an adult Human and adult Great White Shark (Carcharodon carcharias) by artist HodariNundu. Image Source: https://www.deviantart.com/hodarinundu/art/Super-Sized-Saivodus-866628428 Hodnett, J.-P. M., Tweet, J. S., & Santucci, V. L. (2022, August 8). The Occurrence of Fossil Cartilaginous Fishes (Chondrichthyes) within the Parks and Monuments of the National Park Service. researchgate.net. Retrieved December 30, 2022, from https://www.researchgate.net/publication/362806168_THE_OCCURRENCE_OF_FOSSIL_CARTILAGINOUS_FISHES_CHONDRICHTHYES_WITHIN_THE_PARKS_AND_MONUMENTS_OF_THE_NATIONAL_PARK_SERVICE Both were giant members of the Ctenacanthiformes and were on par in size with the largest Great White Sharks (Carcharodon carcharias) (which can reach lengths of 20 feet). But the question I have is which species was bigger (in weight and in length)? Which one was the biggest of the Ctenacanthiformes? @Elasmohunter @BobWill @connorp @deutscheben @jdp What do you think?
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My dad found this skull in the Mississippi River on a gravel island that has since disappeared. He says it was identified as a cave bear skull from the pliocene Era but he is not quite sure if that's what the person said as it was a very long time ago. Any help identifying this would be greatly appreciated
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Help identifying locations of Mississippian era formations in Northern Illinois
Joseph Fossil posted a topic in Questions & Answers
I've recently been trying to locate some new fossil sites (particularly those of Mississippian age) to go to and I found some places that might seem interesting. I found them looking at a slightly old geologic map of Illinois and I was wondering if anyone can tell me where exactly these locations are and if they are particularly fossil rich? https://www.mindat.org/loc-14607.html
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I've heard recently that the Glen Dean Formation (Carboniferous) outcrops in Illinois are very fossil rich, especially with Invertebrates. However, I haven't heard much about vertebrate fossils coming from that formation. https://igws.indiana.edu/IGNIS/GeoNamesDetails.cfm?ID=805C6AF7-75E2-40C8-A8D2-C7535D35F7C8 Hoenig MMJ - MS Thesis - Chondrichthyan Diversity (Updated) (1).pdf Does anyone know what kind of vertebrate fauna (mainly fish) fossils are found at the Illinois outcrops of the Glen Dean Formation and if it's connected to the Burlington-Keokuk Fish Beds?
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2022 I&M Canal Corridor Fossil Trip - August 27th and 28th, 2022
stats posted a topic in Fossil Hunting Trips
The annual I&M Canal Corridor Fossil Trip was split between two weekends this year. Saturday, August 13th and Sunday August 14th, 2022 were family and beginner days, while more experienced collectors had their opportunities on Saturday, August 27th and Sunday, August 28th, 2022. From the look of what was found, the families barely made a dent in the supply of fossils. In case you are not familiar with the history of the site, the Kodat/Benson farm is designated as a National Historic Landmark in 1997. Statement of Significance (as of designation - September 25, 1997): The Mazon Creek Fossil Beds are important in the history of U.S. geology. When they were discovered in the mid-19th century, the beds provided the best and earliest representations of the oldest plants and animals known. Sites where fragile fossils are common and well preserved (here in distinctive ironstone nodules) are exceedingly rare. The Mazon Creek beds continue to be a prolific source of fossils. This trip is always well attended. The family and dinner event (August 28th) included an informative lecture by Andrew Young and Dave Dolak about the geology, history, and the fossils found at the site. There were quite a few opened concretions found on each day. The finds ranged from a shark tooth, to a huge lungfish scale, and many of the spectacular ferns common throughout the Mazon Creek fossil deposit. I saw many Fossil Forum people at the event. Please post photos to this thread. I gave most of my open pieces away, but will be adding any new fossils as my unopened concretions go through the freeze/thaw process. Please add yourself, if I have missed you. @deutscheben @connorp @bigred97 @Roby Here are a few photos over the 4 days.
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I was hoping to get some help identifying these bivalves. They were collected from Pennsylvanian (Desmoinesian) limestones in Illinois. They appear to me to be the same form, but I could be wrong. The shells are fairly featureless. The three specimens range from 0.5cm to 1cm in width.
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Curious if anyone recognizes this. Looks floral but I don't recall having seen anything like it before. @Nimravis @stats @Mark Kmiecik @deutscheben @RCFossils
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Hello. I found three pieces in the Mazon Creek area that I’ve finally split open and am interested in. While there is a very good possibility that all three are just consequences of opening the concretion and not actually fossils, I figured I’d check. Image 1: I thought there was a slight possibility it was a leaf or a worm, but due to lack of detail, I imagine it is not. Image 2: Potentially the top of E. asherae or something similar. Image 3: I am actually just curious about what causes the small, light circles on the right side of the bottom piece and in the middle of the top piece. I’ve noticed these on many Mazon rocks and wonder if it is a mineral inclusion or something else. Thank you for taking a look!
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This concretion opened up a couple weeks ago. When I first looked at it, I could tell there was something there, but the contrast between it and the surrounding matrix was very low, so I didn't think much of it. I got around to looking at it again yesterday. In very bright oblique light, I realized it was actually a very beautiful spider with legs and all. It measures about 1cm. I am not sure on the ID. Colors inverted
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