Best air abrasive units?

[Wxman]

Hi all. I have seen people reference the Paasche, but complain about the capacity. What are you using? Any tips?

Has anyone tried THIS unit, or see anything good/bad about it?

 

 

Do you still use air abrasives if the matrix is harder than the fossil?

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by JohnJ
Replaced inevitably temporal sales link with image

[steelhead9]

It depends on how much work you intend to do. The paasche is an economical way to get a feel for micro-blasting. Anything serious, you will need a much better unit (at a MUCH higher price.

I would not advise ever blasting a fossil that was softer than it's matrix unless you have a lot of experience with abrasives and low pressure blasting.

[jpc]

We have a few of these units that were built by The Prep Tent about 5-7 years ago.  They no longer exist but it looks like Vaniman might have bought them out.  This unit looks just like our older ones.  Mr Vaniman shows up on this forum every now and again.  If this is anything like the Prep Tent units I have, it is good for casual use.  It does not work well with larger grain bicarb, but works fine with fine grain (what the industry calls "#1", which is what you get when you buy a food grade box of Arm and hammer baking soda.).  You should clamp the unit to your bench-top if you do get one.  And the air pressure controller is now broken on a few of ours.   I am glad you posted this, I may need to buy some spare parts.    

[hadrosauridae]

42 minutes ago, Wxman said:

Hi all. I have seen people reference the Paasche, but complain about the capacity. What are you using? Any tips?

Has anyone tried THIS unit, or see anything good/bad about it?

Do you still use air abrasives if the matrix is harder than the fossil?

 

I am brand new to the world of air-abrasion cleaning.  I can't comment on the Paasche, but I do have the Vaniman unit you listed and I an VERY happy with it.  I will pass on a tip that has helped me, and that is to get the green "medium" tip.  You can work with much lower PSI and go through WAY LESS bicarb while cleaning.

 

I can tell you that you should not be air abraiding a fossil which is softer than the matrix. 

 

I will tell you to spend a lot of time in the PREP section of this forum.  I spent months researching everything I could about theory and practice of soda blasting fossils.  There are some good academic sites out there but there are far more great links right back here.

 

Now here's a warning, you are embarking down an EXPENSIVE road! Building a blasting prep station on the cheap can still cost over $1000.  You need a compressor that puts out more than your tool uses.  The Vaniman uses about 1cfm (IIRC), and I would recommend to have a compressor that puts out at least 4cfm.  The tiny "pancake" compressor meant for filling tires will never get a rest while you are working and it will wear out quickly.  Next you need an air dryer system with desiccant dryer.  The bigger the desiccant reservoir, the longer you can go between changes but the more $$$$ it costs to get going.  Then you are going to need a box to do the blasting in, and you really need a vacuum dust system or you are going to have trouble seeing anything inside the box.  

Please take a look at me thread I made about my prep station: 

 

You certainly dont have to do things exactly like I did, but you need to look at my components and do a LOT of researching and planning before you start buying items.

 

[Wxman]

Thanks everyone. 

@steelhead9 I am still researching everything, and buying when I see a deal. I have already spent $500 and haven't scratched a rock yet. I've got a CP9361 and an 8315B, some picks, and a cheapo air grinder pen. I'll be building a blast cabinet one day for my soft limestone plates. I'm the classic "all the tools, none of the skills" neophyte. But hey, there are worse hobbies....

 

@jpcno worries. It seemed to have all the boxes ticked, but hadn't heard of anyone using them. Nice to know they are a good product. 

 

@hadrosauridae I see it in the photo, yes. Cool. Glad to know it works. Thanks for the "green tip" hint.

I did read your submission about your setup a couple weeks ago. Nicely done. I also noted the drain legs in your piping section and thought them a good idea. 

[Ptychodus04]

Some of my comments below parrot comments above but my wife says I like to tell people what to do, so here we go!

 

I have this system and it works well. It is definitely not in league with a Comco or Swam Blaster but it's good enough for my needs. Pressure control and orifice size are your only adjustments. I use mostly #1 (~80 micron) soda media. With the larger black tip, you will push a large amount of abrasive so higher pressure is needed to get it to cut properly. With the smaller green tip, the media is doesed more appropriately for detail prep but you have to work under a microscope in order to see the progress and keep from burning through your specimen. You can achieve passable results without magnification with the black tip but that's not acceptable coming out of my lab generally (I have a reputation to maintain however unfounded it may be ).

 

You will need a coalescing filter as well as a desiccant in order to keep from having clogging issues due to moisture in the compressed air. You also will need a quality dust collection system and a blast cabinet (you may already have these) or you will have to work outside using appropriate PPE.

 

As for your question on abrasive when the matrix is harder than the fossil... Typically, no is the answer but with enough practice and the right setup, you can definitely manage it. It requires a harder abrasive and a very low pressure on the unit in order to remove the smallest amount of matrix at a time. You definitely have to do this with a microscope and there's a specific technique that involves rhythmically pulsing the air with the foot pedal while working the "pen" in a circular motion. You kind of have to feel it but this allows you to employ a bit of guerilla warfare on the matrix without destroying the specimen. It is definitely NOT a beginner technique.

[Wxman]

@Ptychodus04 Thank you. 

Can you recommend any YouTube channels where people show prepping techniques? I've only been able to find a couple of vids. I'm surprised there aren't more. 

[jpc]

Maybe you've seen this in your internet research, but here is a PowerPoint I did for an SVP meeting back in 2007.  Holy Guacamole... 13 years ago!  To quote the Talking Heads...I must be having fun.  Not a youtube video, sorry. 

 

http://vertpaleo.org/For-Members/Preparators-Resources/Preparators-Resources-PDF-files/Cavigelli_2007.aspx 

 

I also did another talk about how air abrasion eats at tooth surface at microscopic level.  And, yes it does.  But I don't have that .ppt handy.  

[Fossildude19]

@Vaniman

[Wxman]

@jpc I had not seen that. Thank you. Much to learn, and I'm trying to soak it up. 

[Vaniman]

Hey All! Nathan here... Thought I'd chime in.   First of all wow! I very much appreciate any and all feedback regarding our sandblasting units.  We genuinely pay attention and look to improve our products overtime.  

 

Regarding video I have a few resources showing the master mobile problast in action....

 

Here's an instagram post from one of our dealers: IG Post here

 

Also, our IG feed has some video and pics as well with the mobile unit in action. Just search for "vaniman manufacturing co" in instagram to find us. 

 

Also, we have a Facebook group which has some videos of stuff (if you scroll back far enough) that link is here: FB Group

 

Regarding technique, sandblasting really is an art form of its own. In fact, there are several different professions that use our units and sandblasters in general for very specific controlled work. (heart stents, restoring artwork, glass etching, etc).  I always a recommend this: LOW n SLOW--start with low pressure and slowly work at your piece. Angle, pressure, and distance all affect how much material will be removed so it's a "feel" thing at some point. 

 

The best thing to do is purchase cheap fossils from a dealer (like fish) and practice on them.  With time, your blasting experience improves- experienced blasters use less media and take less time to complete projects. 

 

Regarding microscopic damage-I think you'd be hard pressed to find a method of matrix removal with 100% accuracy and no damage to the original material--I'm not professionally educated or trained on the matter but I think sandblasting "can" cause damage. Especially in inexperienced hands...However...So could an Air Scribe. Truth be told it's a matter of personal preference in my opinion. 

 

I hope this helps--i try not to "push" our products and respect this forum a great deal so my apologies if it seems that way at all.  

 

On a side note--I am currently writing a general sandblasting guide the deep dives into blasting techniques and how it affects material removal and will post it of the Vaniman blog when complete. 

 

Also, as some of you know, we are currently developing a new type of sandblaster (for Vaniman anyway) that pulses and modulates media flow which will result in much higher precision and reliable flow.  We've been at it for nearly a year now but hope to have something near the end of the year.  I will be sure to keep this forum up to date as best I can.  

 

Cheers everyone!

 

-Nathan

 

[Ptychodus04]

Hey Nathan @Vaniman. My only complaints after a few hundred hours on the unit is that there is a significant drop off of abrasive volume after about 20% of the reservoir is used when operating at low pressures or with the smaller orifice tips. Not a major concern as it takes me around 6 hours to get there.

 

And, the pressure adjustment on the air valve broke pretty quickly. It’s not a huge issue since I was able to get it working by removing the lock. 
 

Overall, I’m very satisfied.

[jpc]

33 minutes ago, Ptychodus04 said:

Hey Nathan @Vaniman. My only complaints after a few hundred hours on the unit is that there is a significant drop off of abrasive volume after about 20% of the reservoir is used when operating at low pressures or with the smaller orifice tips. Not a major concern as it takes me around 6 hours to get there.

 

And, the pressure adjustment on the air valve broke pretty quickly. It’s not a huge issue since I was able to get it working by removing the lock. 
 

Overall, I’m very satisfied.

I have the same problems with ours.  

 

Nathan.. are these indeed the same creatures that used to be made by "The Prep Tent"  

 

About microscopic damage by abrasion units, yes, it exists, and in many instances it is the least of all evils.  Especially form a scientific standpoint, the conclusion of my talk was that specimens that have been sandblasted should be labeled as so.  

[Vaniman]

Sorry to hear about the valve breaking-that is not a common thing.  As an FYI our products are used in a lot of different industries with much higher hours of usage and broken air valves are not common--we have a manufacturing warranty as well you can contact us about if you purchased recently.  

 

We have no affiliation with The Prep Tent-first time hearing about them honestly.  Our sandblasters were first designed and are assembled by hard here in California by our namesake founder Ed Vaniman about 15 years ago and are of our own design.  We have updated our Media Tank design as recently as mid-2019 to a more slender media tank which help the flow a little bit.  Granted there are still issues that you will run into due to the nature of the machines (moisture, operating at low pressure, etc) but there isn't much we can do about it without adding a modulation device of sorts to the blasters.   

 

This increased cost significantly and is also why similar units like CM and Comco are much more expensive.   (Although we are working on a solution to that)

 

Make sure you use higher quality media as well--the sodium bicarbonate I recommend is not the stuff you get from the store or cheaper hardware outlets--Here's why: Our "soda" is sieved multipe times to ensure a minimal variance of micron size particle.  Basically, they sift it a bunch of times so that when you buy a "80um sodium bicarbonate"  you can look under a microscope and see that all of the individual media particles are close to 80micron in size  (+/- 10%).  This degree in variance is altered based on the supplier and quality.  

 

A great example of this is Dolomite media.  It's very popular for prepping but there is a large variance in the particulate size (its also likes to attract charged ions making it "sticky" when in blasting chambers, tubes, etc)

 

So while I know there are lots of people using Dolomite with our microblasters, they occasionally run into clogging issues for these reasons.   Most people work past it the snags here and there since the benefits outweigh the costs. 

 

Anyway--thats my personal feedback on that. I hope it was helpful.  And like I said, please contact us if you feel you have a genuine warranty issue (the mobile units carry a 1 yr manufacturer defect warranty). 

 

 

 

[Ptychodus04]

3 minutes ago, Vaniman said:

Sorry to hear about the valve breaking-that is not a common thing.  As an FYI our products are used in a lot of different industries with much higher hours of usage and broken air valves are not common--we have a manufacturing warranty as well you can contact us about if you purchased recently.  

 

We have no affiliation with The Prep Tent-first time hearing about them honestly.  Our sandblasters were first designed and are assembled by hard here in California by our namesake founder Ed Vaniman about 15 years ago and are of our own design.  We have updated our Media Tank design as recently as mid-2019 to a more slender media tank which help the flow a little bit.  Granted there are still issues that you will run into due to the nature of the machines (moisture, operating at low pressure, etc) but there isn't much we can do about it without adding a modulation device of sorts to the blasters.   

 

This increased cost significantly and is also why similar units like CM and Comco are much more expensive.   (Although we are working on a solution to that)

 

Make sure you use higher quality media as well--the sodium bicarbonate I recommend is not the stuff you get from the store or cheaper hardware outlets--Here's why: Our "soda" is sieved multipe times to ensure a minimal variance of micron size particle.  Basically, they sift it a bunch of times so that when you buy a "80um sodium bicarbonate"  you can look under a microscope and see that all of the individual media particles are close to 80micron in size  (+/- 10%).  This degree in variance is altered based on the supplier and quality.  

 

A great example of this is Dolomite media.  It's very popular for prepping but there is a large variance in the particulate size (its also likes to attract charged ions making it "sticky" when in blasting chambers, tubes, etc)

 

So while I know there are lots of people using Dolomite with our microblasters, they occasionally run into clogging issues for these reasons.   Most people work past it the snags here and there since the benefits outweigh the costs. 

 

Anyway--thats my personal feedback on that. I hope it was helpful.  And like I said, please contact us if you feel you have a genuine warranty issue (the mobile units carry a 1 yr manufacturer defect warranty). 

 

 

 

The broken piece on the valve is not an issue for me at all. I simply removed the locking collar and reinstalled the adjustment piece. I actually prefer it because it makes varying pressures easier when I'm at the microscope. Also, the media flow issue wasn't meant to be a detractor, rather an FYI to people who are considering the product. I have no issues with flow when using the larger tips even below 20% capacity. It is only the smaller tips which constrict outbound pressures that have an issue. It simply means that I refill after 25% of the media is used.

 

The price point for these units is so low that addressing minor idiosyncrasies is not a concern. I have not had any clogging issues to speak of using general purpose baking soda as an abrasive. Once in a blue moon I'll get a rogue oversize particle that jams into the small green tip. I have a thin dental pick that I straightened which is smaller than the diameter of the orifice which I employ to clear the blockage. I did notice some single digit micron sized build up in the tip after around 150 hours which significantly reduced the media flow. 30 seconds of clean out with my small tool previously mentioned and I was back to 100% efficiency.

[Ptychodus04]

32 minutes ago, jpc said:

About microscopic damage by abrasion units, yes, it exists, and in many instances it is the least of all evils.  Especially form a scientific standpoint, the conclusion of my talk was that specimens that have been sandblasted should be labeled as so.  

This is 100% true. You can see it happen on softer stuff like the Green River Formation. That being said, I can't scribe down to the very tips of the fins without destroying them but I can with abrasives. It is definitely a trade off.