old bones Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 I started spending a bit of time searching matrix this month. It's been a while, and I have found it to be as relaxing and rewarding as I remembered. I made a few pictures just for fun and I included a shark tooth for ID if possible. There have been a few of these odd ball shark teeth in the wonderful Cookie Cutter matrix. If anyone could tell me the position and or possible species of this tiny shark tooth, I would appreciate it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Wonderful photos, as usual. That first one looks pathological (at least with my untrained eye. 1 Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted April 6, 2020 Author Share Posted April 6, 2020 Thanks, Lori! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagurus Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Your photos and presentation are as awesome as always. Thanks for sharing your finds again! Mike 1 Start the day with a smile and get it over with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 Thank you Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 4 hours ago, old bones said: I started spending a bit of time searching matrix this month. It's been a while, and I have found it to be as relaxing and rewarding as I remembered. I made a few pictures just for fun and I included a shark tooth for ID if possible. There have been a few of these odd ball shark teeth in the wonderful Cookie Cutter matrix. If anyone could tell me the position and or possible species of this tiny shark tooth, I would appreciate it. You may be becoming the EXPERT in this area. I just do not know how much scientific analysis has been done in the area of Florida sharks with tiny teeth. Perhaps you can get this one named after you Possibly @ynot has seen it on the other coast. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Shellseeker said: You may be becoming the EXPERT in this area. I just do not know how much scientific analysis has been done in the area of Florida sharks with tiny teeth. Perhaps you can get this one named after you Possibly @ynot has seen it on the other coast. What a lovely thought, but, Nope, I am not very good with shark teeth.... Even the very tiny ones. I thank you for the vote of confidence tho. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Feather Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Always great catching up on all of you.. Today I received this from a young lady in Ohio Today went fishing and checked a road with shells for any shark teeth..none. did find some small fossil..its soaking Stay safe everyone. Deb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 4 hours ago, old bones said: If anyone could tell me the position and or possible species of this tiny shark tooth, I would appreciate it. Julianna Nice specimens. I don't think the above specimen is a complete tooth. From the pictures you can see what looks like damage on the one side and I think the specimen looks more like a cusplet broken off from a bigger tooth. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 48 minutes ago, MarcoSr said: Julianna Nice specimens. I don't think the above specimen is a complete tooth. From the pictures you can see what looks like damage on the one side and I think the specimen looks more like a cusplet broken off from a bigger tooth. Marco Sr. Thank you Marco Sr.. That makes sense. I'll stop scratching my head about this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 I think it's possible that it could be a worn upper posterior tooth of Isistius. It would be a very rare find if it is. It is something to show to Dr. Bruce Welton. I've been meaning to write to him and this might be the time. Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 6 hours ago, siteseer said: I think it's possible that it could be a worn upper posterior tooth of Isistius. It would be a very rare find if it is. It is something to show to Dr. Bruce Welton. I've been meaning to write to him and this might be the time. Jess Jess The size of the specimen is too big for an upper Isistius tooth. Upper teeth are 1mm or smaller in height and much narrower than that. Also the crown is too broad and the root is not elongated like an Isistius upper tooth. See the picture below from researchgate.net. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted April 8, 2020 Author Share Posted April 8, 2020 6 hours ago, siteseer said: I think it's possible that it could be a worn upper posterior tooth of Isistius. It would be a very rare find if it is. It is something to show to Dr. Bruce Welton. I've been meaning to write to him and this might be the time. Jess I wish it were... I have actually spent a lot of time searching very fine sand matrix from this location in the hopes of discovering an upper. I have learned that they are extremely small and very thin. I have a couple of much better candidates than this one, but even those are 'not quite right'. I do thank you for your interest in this one... someday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 The irregular shape of the crown with odd bumps and bends makes me think it is a deformed tooth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pemphix Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 In my opinion it is a complete but pathological shark teeth. You can clearly see the cutting edges of the teeth on both sides, so no cusplet imho. Don't ask me for the species 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 6 hours ago, MarcoSr said: Jess The size of the specimen is too big for an upper Isistius tooth. Upper teeth are 1mm or smaller in height and much narrower than that. Also the crown is too broad and the root is not elongated like an Isistius upper tooth. See the picture below from researchgate.net. Marco Sr. Hi Marco Sr., Oh yeah, I was focused on the shape and not the size. Yeah, six times too big. However, that drawing may not be a good example of a dentition. There is more of a size difference along the uppers and root lobes are more separated (see Herman, J., M. Hovestadt-Euler, and D.C. Hovestadt. 1989: 152). Jess Herman, J., M. Hovestadt-Euler, and D.C. Hovestadt. 1989. Part A: Selachii. No. 3: Order: Squaliformes. Families: Echinorhinidae, Oxynotidae and Squalidae. In Stehmann, M (ed.). Contributions to the study of the comparative morphology of teeth and other relevant ichthyodorulites in living superspecific taxa of Chondrichthyan fishes. Bulletin de l'Institut Royal des Sciences Naturelles de Belgique, Biologie, 59: 101-157. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted April 8, 2020 Author Share Posted April 8, 2020 9 hours ago, Al Dente said: The irregular shape of the crown with odd bumps and bends makes me think it is a deformed tooth. 9 hours ago, Pemphix said: In my opinion it is a complete but pathological shark teeth. You can clearly see the cutting edges of the teeth on both sides, so no cusplet imho. Don't ask me for the species Thank you both for your input on this little tooth. I appreciate all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted April 8, 2020 Author Share Posted April 8, 2020 3 hours ago, siteseer said: Hi Marco Sr., Oh yeah, I was focused on the shape and not the size. Yeah, six times too big. However, that drawing may not be a good example of a dentition. There is more of a size difference along the uppers and root lobes are more separated (see Herman, J., M. Hovestadt-Euler, and D.C. Hovestadt. 1989: 152). Jess Herman, J., M. Hovestadt-Euler, and D.C. Hovestadt. 1989. Part A: Selachii. No. 3: Order: Squaliformes. Families: Echinorhinidae, Oxynotidae and Squalidae. In Stehmann, M (ed.). Contributions to the study of the comparative morphology of teeth and other relevant ichthyodorulites in living superspecific taxa of Chondrichthyan fishes. Bulletin de l'Institut Royal des Sciences Naturelles de Belgique, Biologie, 59: 101-157. Thanks for the excellent PDF. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 13 hours ago, Al Dente said: The irregular shape of the crown with odd bumps and bends makes me think it is a deformed tooth. 12 hours ago, Pemphix said: In my opinion it is a complete but pathological shark teeth. You can clearly see the cutting edges of the teeth on both sides, so no cusplet imho. Don't ask me for the species I believe that the specimen could be a cusplet from a sandtiger like a Carcharias taurus. See the below two pictures of two extant Carcharias taurus teeth. The cusplets have cutting edges, bumps and a gap between the enamel on the cusplet and the root. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted April 9, 2020 Author Share Posted April 9, 2020 13 hours ago, MarcoSr said: I believe that the specimen could be a cusplet from a sandtiger like a Carcharias taurus. See the below two pictures of two extant Carcharias taurus teeth. The cusplets have cutting edges, bumps and a gap between the enamel on the cusplet and the root. Marco Sr. Marco Sr., The circled feature (not sure what this is called), is what lead me to consider this as an entire tooth. It seems to be dead center as I see it on other shark teeth. Julianna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, old bones said: Marco Sr., The circled feature (not sure what this is called), is what lead me to consider this as an entire tooth. It seems to be dead center as I see it on other shark teeth. Julianna Julianna Some species of sharks do have a foramina (small hole) in a central portion of the root of their teeth. It is possible that your specimen is a complete tooth. If a complete tooth, I would think that it was a small symphyseal/parasymphyseal tooth from the symphysis of the jaw. The features of the specimen really don't match anything else that I'm familiar with. However, I see lots of broken off individual cusplets in the different matrixes that I search and that seems to be a better match to your specimen. There is just so much evidence of damage in the root area of your specimen that I just don't feel that it is a complete specimen but more likely a portion of a larger one. I've circled damaged areas in the below picture. Edit: and I think your specimen looks a lot like the cusplet that I circled below: Marco Sr. Edited April 10, 2020 by MarcoSr add picture "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 10 hours ago, MarcoSr said: Julianna Some species of sharks do have a foramina (small hole) in a central portion of the root of their teeth. It is possible that your specimen is a complete tooth. If a complete tooth, I would think that it was a small symphyseal/parasymphyseal tooth from the symphysis of the jaw. The features of the specimen really don't match anything else that I'm familiar with. However, I see lots of broken off individual cusplets in the different matrixes that I search and that seems to be a better match to your specimen. There is just so much evidence of damage in the root area of your specimen that I just don't feel that it is a complete specimen but more likely a portion of a larger one. I've circled damaged areas in the below picture. Edit: and I think your specimen looks a lot like the cusplet that I circled below: Marco Sr. Marco Sr., Thank you for the further insight regarding this tiny specimen, it has been interesting. Julianna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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