Kolya Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Hello! Help with identification, please. What is it? Western Ukraine. The max length no more then 1 cm. Cretaceus-Paleogene. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Maybe the impression of a crinoid columnal. 1 Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 50 minutes ago, TqB said: Maybe the impression of a crinoid columnal. This doesn't happen often. I have to disagree though. I would lean toward a younger rock where I see a rudist maybe ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Rockwood said: This doesn't happen often. I have to disagree though. I would lean toward a younger rock where I see a rudist maybe ? You may well be right, I see too much Carboniferous stuff where the crinoid option would be a cert. Not sure if any later ones would be similar. (Darned rudists!). (A Mississippian crinoid plate): 3 Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pemphix Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 No Rudist. Way too small and no typical pattern. I'm with TqB here (crinoidal columnal).... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie81 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 +1 for crinoid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 6 hours ago, Pemphix said: Way too small and no typical pattern. You mean the larval stage is bigger than this ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pemphix Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 On 12.4.2020 at 8:53 PM, Rockwood said: You mean the larval stage is bigger than this ? This is not a larval stadium of any rudist that i know. Most important: the lack of any typical pattern of rudist shell, especially those of the smaller upper one (teeth and holes), see here for example: https://franzbernhard.lima-city.de/SanktBartholomae_Literaturzusammenfassung.pdf But maybe you have a picture to proof the opposite ? As i always said to myself: never to old to learn new things.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 It might be a jaw segment from a fish. The circular part would be a tooth socket. Here's an image from the NC Fossil Club publication "Fossil Fish". 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolya Posted April 14, 2020 Author Share Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 11:53 AM, Al Dente said: It might be a jaw segment from a fish. The circular part would be a tooth socket. Here's an image from the NC Fossil Club publication "Fossil Fish". Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Pemphix said: But maybe you have a picture to proof the opposite ? I think tuck and roll is my move now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pemphix Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 11:53 AM, Al Dente said: It might be a jaw segment from a fish. The circular part would be a tooth socket. Here's an image from the NC Fossil Club publication "Fossil Fish". Is there any typical bone-structure to see ? I don't see any ? But nevertheless a possible match, if there would be bone-structure... In the meantime i stay with crinoideal coloumn... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 9 minutes ago, Pemphix said: Is there any typical bone-structure to see ? It depends on how you define typical. I think it is bone. It just doesn't jump out and say it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pemphix Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rockwood said: It depends on how you define typical. I think it is bone. It just doesn't jump out and say it. Typical is spongiosa, trabeculae, corticalis... Why do you think it is bone ? And yes it is dead, so it cannot jump anymore.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, Pemphix said: Why do you think it is bone ? The resemblance to lung fish teeth, the roots of some fish teeth, and just a general bone like look. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 11:53 AM, Al Dente said: Here's an image from the NC Fossil Club publication "Fossil Fish". and this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pemphix Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Rockwood said: The resemblance to lung fish teeth, the roots of some fish teeth, and just a general bone like look. No lung fish at all - I have a lot of them in my collection in all stadiums of preservation. They have a very typical tooth-pattern (small dense standing "holes") which you can see even in the smallest pieces... I (already) agree to be possible fish teeth root, but as i said, i'm missing the typical bone-structure (what should be there, if it is a teeth-root) - see the picture from Al Dente for example. As from what i can see right now, it is a water-worn black limestone with a crinoideal column.... Maybe some picture from other angles would help to solve the question... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, Pemphix said: No lung fish at all - I have a lot of them in my collection in all stadiums of preservation. They have a very typical tooth-pattern (small dense standing "holes") which you can see even in the smallest pieces... I (already) agree to be possible fish teeth root, but as i said, i'm missing the typical bone-structure (what should be there, if it is a teeth-root) - see the picture from Al Dente for example. As from what i can see right now, it is a water-worn black limestone with a crinoideal column.... Maybe some picture from other angles would help to solve the question... You might be right that it is not bone. On closer examination of the photo it looks like there are quartz sand grains incorporated in the matrix. I think it is phosphatized sediment with some type of imprint. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Pemphix said: No lung fish at all - I have a lot of them in my collection in all stadiums of preservation. They have a very typical tooth-pattern (small dense standing "holes") which you can see even in the smallest pieces... My understanding is that teeth are dermal bone, and I do see a similarity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolya Posted April 16, 2020 Author Share Posted April 16, 2020 Thanks to All! More photos from different angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Could you do that again once it has dried ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolya Posted April 16, 2020 Author Share Posted April 16, 2020 30 minutes ago, Rockwood said: Could you do that again once it has dried ? Thanks a lot! It is dry, but worn by a water so slightly glossy. I attaching few new photos may be they would be more informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, Kolya said: slightly glossy. Never call this guy to check on runway conditions. You might get down, but you'll never get it stopped. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolya Posted April 16, 2020 Author Share Posted April 16, 2020 16 minutes ago, Rockwood said: Never call this guy to check on runway conditions. You might get down, but you'll never get it stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pemphix Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Thank you. It is like i thought - I see nothing what points into direction of teeth or bone. So i stay with my opinion of an impression of crinoideal column in a waterworn black limestone. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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