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What fossil do you regret buying ?

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Wrangellian
12 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

I rather like the thin straw sort of stuff. :D

:default_rofl:

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RuMert
9 hours ago, Wrangellian said:

So who really knows what the kid felt?

Exactly, it's all the impression that Andy had and it could be anything.Human nature is such one can easily judge himself a criminal or a saint and find enough arguments for either position.Judging oneself bad is often as appealing as judging oneself good. Many cultures and religions use it - feel yourself bad, miserable, sinner, criminal - and bring them your money. It's hard to define the right behavior, but I think we should try to be as neutral and realistic as we can and let others speak for themselves - instead of guessing what they "actually" want (but dont say), or say no (but mean yes), or do what is not good for them (but we know better what they need) etc. Kids have to grow decisive on their own or stay always without eggs:D

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-Andy-
20 hours ago, Abstraktum said:

@-Andy-

 

Andy, I really don't get the problem with your purchase. Why is this a tricky situation? Maybe there is a different mindset or just general cultural difference between our nations or parts of the world, but I seriously don't see how anyone could get mad about your behavior. 

 

You didn't trick him. You didn't make any false statements. You didn't break any law. You didn't break any promise you made. 

 

You said straight forward what you want:

 

 

He said yes and you bought it. You wanted the egg and you were willing to pay the wanted price. If he can't purchase it, because he doesn't have the money or just hesitated, than that is non of your business. Maybe you prevented him from going in debt. 

 

And wanting more money because you prepped the egg,  is the most normal thing I can think of in this situation. After all you made the egg better and put time and knowledge in it.

 

Why is your friend mad about this? 

You are older, more experienced and got more money. You didn't trick him. You have every right to own that egg.

 

Jess said it best. It's a sin of omission. I chose to be self-serving and said nothing to encourage the young collector whom I know wanted the egg.

 

It's not a cultural difference so much of it being a question I'd ask: If I was a new collector to a hobby, how would I want a senior collector to treat me?

 

In this case, as the senior collector, I should be charitable and offer my expertise to the young collector, telling him the signs of the egg being real and what an amazing fossil it is, along with an offer to lend him the money to obtain it.

 

Seeing everyone's input now though, I acknowledge things could very well have played out differently. What if the egg wasn't real after all? My encouragement and offer to lend money to the young collector could have resulted in a disaster in which he would be short on cash, in debt to me, and with nothing to show but a worthless fake egg.

 

In the end, although this egg started the breakdown of a friendship I once cherished, it's just as likely that our friendship wouldn't have lasted anyway if a single incident like this can affect it so much. This incident seem to have affected him more than the young collector. After all, the young collector and I are still on good terms with each other, and though I've pointed him in the direction of good egg deals, and also offered to sell/trade genuine eggs to him at cost price, he never took up my offers.

 

20 hours ago, Uncle Siphuncle said:

Often these situations are dropped in your lap without warning, and you are forced to make snap decisions without the benefit of experience or deliberation.  Once you evaluate your motivations and the other person's motivations fully, over time, and realize that kneejerk reactions are often self-serving, sometimes you aren't proud of your conduct.  I can look back and note an experience or 2 in my past similar to yours, in slightly different context.  Often things are too tainted to have the same friendship going forward.  The best you can do going forward is to consider your evolving compassion and conscience next time an opportunity comes up with one of the other 7 billion people in this world.  Lots of opportunity to do better, but not always with the same person.

 

You are right. What I can take away from this is the important life lesson it has taught me.

 

17 hours ago, Randyw said:

Hi! It’s just my two cents worth but I don’t think you have anything to beat yourself up about. The only thing I would have done different was say “I think it’s real. If you aren’t buying this I will O.K.?” Once he said it’s ok then you’re off the hook. And the fossil was up for grabs. I think the friend who expressed his disappointment was out of line. In that situation I think the lack of funds was more the problem then anything else. I was once in a similar situation With something I collected at the time. I saw a diamond in the rough item that was at the edge of my funds so I set it back down and picked up another item a few steps away. While looking at it I realized it was a rarer find so I turned to pick it back up when I saw another collector had it in his hands. He had seen I was looking at it so he asked if I wanted it. I told him I had set it back down and now it was fair game. I even pointed out things that made it more scarce. Long story short (too late now I guess) he bought it and took it home. We got to be friends over it and laughed about it from time to time until he moved away. My point is I like your young friend had my chance and passed on it. Do I regret not getting it yes of course but I never resented him for getting it just like I imagine your young friend never resented you getting it. So don’t beat yourself up over it.

another case more fossil related I recently had a chance to buy a group of unprepared possibly knightia fish. I declined the group at the time but spent time debating it. I finally decided to buy the batch but didn’t do it right away. During the time I was sitting around with my thumb up my but, the seller prepped out one of the pieces and it turned out to be a much better and more uncommon species  then either I or the seller thought it was. I don’t resent not getting that piece as I had declined it originally so it was fair game. I’m actually glad the seller had decided to keep and prep it as he did a so much better job then I ever could have and I know he probably values it highly so I’m glad for him.if he ever sold it I know I’d never be able to afford it so I’d also have to decline like your young friend did after you prepped yours. I’d like to think your young friend feel similarly. So stop worrying and enjoy and treasure your egg.

 

Thank you. I don't think my friend was out of line. It's not the only time he's expressed anger over the behavior of myself, or others in our fossil community. Every time I reflect on his moments of anger however, I have to admit that we've erred in some way.

 

I think he simply has high moral expectations for himself and for people around him. If he sees a situation that doesn't sit right with him, he voices it out. He now only keeps in close contact with one or two members of our community on the same wavelength as him, and maybe that's for the best.

 

I am glad that in those cases where you passed on those good deals, you were able to get over them and even make friend with the other party. The young collector and I are still on good terms, so I guess he's alright with what happened too.

 

12 hours ago, siteseer said:

Andy,

 

I see the moral dilemma.  You feel like you committed a "sin of omission" by not telling the young collector you thought the egg was real and you didn't try make it possible for him to buy it.  I can understand your other friend questioning your ethics to a certain extent but then you weren't sure it was a good egg until you spent some time prepping it.  Specimens can look good in a store but different when you get it outside.  If the young collector didn't have enough money to buy it outright, he didn't have the money to prep it either.  When you told him you put prep time into it, he didn't want to compensate you for that.  He couldn't expect to get the value you added to it by cleaning it up and confirming its authenticity for the same price.  Yes, it would have nice of you to do that but his inability to acknowledge the added value of your prep subtracts from your other friend's position that you should have worked harder to make it possible for the "kid" to acquire the specimen.  That's called "bending over backwards" to help someone.  The kid didn't appreciate it enough in my opinion.

 

Your friend thought you should have done that, and to your credit, you thought you should have as well after you thought about it.  Not everyone can be that objective - that honest with himself - and with other people, holding yourself up to scrutiny as you are doing in this thread.  Uncle Siphuncle is right.  You were younger too.  You were excited about the egg.  You suspected the egg was good but what if it had turned out to be not as good as it appeared after the prep (or maybe you damage it during prep) whether the kid or you owned it?  You would have felt bad - maybe worse than you did then or do now.  You can't always see how you're going to see things in the future.

 

I'm sorry you lost a friend at least in part over that deal.  However, I think it's a bit overly judgmental of him to expect you to be a perfect person.  He can be disappointed in you in that particular situation, but if he were as wise and magnanimous as he expected you to be, he would have known that none of us can be perfect.  If that's the worst thing you have done, you must be a decent person.  We can try to do the right thing all the time and beat ourselves up when we feel like we went the wrong way on a judgement call but that's life.  Hopefully, we keep growing as adults even long after we stop getting taller. 

 

Jess

 

Thank you Jess. I think you explained it best: mine is a sin of omission.

 

Still, I now see how things could very well have played out differently. What if the egg wasn't real after all? My encouragement and offer to lend money to the young collector could have resulted in a disaster in which he would be short on cash, in debt to me, and with nothing to show but a worthless fake egg. I dare say this situation would be worse.

 

My friend is indeed judgemental (he's called out others in Singapore's fossil community too), but he behaves the way he expects others to; I've ever seen him act in a way that's dishonest or hypocritical. Now, he only keeps in close contact with one or two here who are on the same wavelength as him, and I think everyone is the happier for it.

 

I do hope that's the worst thing I've done! But anyway, all your replies have enlightened me greatly. It's time I moved on from this. Thanks again.

 

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Masp

Some regrets of mine when I first got into this hobby, all from a fossil show in one day:

 

1.) Purchased an Allosaurus ischium, found out it was a splintered sauropod rib

2.) Purchased a partial Brachiosaurus femur with Allosaurus bite marks, found out it’s an

      indeterminate species, either a sauropod or stegosaur femur with bug marks. Now don’t

      get me wrong the piece is pretty cool, but was a very expensive purchase and I was  
      extremely disappointed. 
3.) Several Moroccan fossils with very sloppy glue repair, or fabricated sections. Didn’t break the bank on this, but it was indeed a lesson. 

 

Point is, I was thrilled being that for the first time, I was seeing some incredible fossils that I wouldn’t have came across otherwise...so I cranked the dial on impulse buying to 10. That same day I almost purchased a completely fabricated Spinosaurus claw, which to this day I’m so happy I passed on. 

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aplomado
On 5/22/2020 at 3:38 PM, Abstraktum said:

@-Andy-

 

 

I don't really regret any fossil I bought. Maybe my first Meg tooth.

This one: 

 IMG_1516.thumb.jpg.54d5e7da77ffd2c3aa1fd654e6831e52.jpg

 

Because I got a way better and bigger one with superb serrations. 

This one here doesn't have any serrations at all. But well, it's still one solid 5.35inch Meg tooth :) 

 

 

 

It's hideous...:(


Please get it out of your house... send it to me for disposal...


PM for my address.  I'll even re-imburse you for shipping.  I don't want you to suffer this fossil regret a moment more.

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hadrosauridae

I've bought very little, and so far the only regret is that I lost a small trilo and fern fossils I purchased as a kid.  I have felt regret at what I spent in order to go dig in the past, but the memories of it were priceless.

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Ruger9a

I regret EVERY fossil I purchased without the proper documentation...….. 

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Randyw

3C2D5005-54F0-4019-BB68-7EB5DA36611D.jpeg

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-Andy-
8 hours ago, Ruger9a said:

I regret EVERY fossil I purchased without the proper documentation...….. 

 

Now this, THIS I can fully agree with

 

I only started proper record keeping after 2013. Everything before is a matter of memory and guesswork

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RuMert
2 hours ago, -Andy- said:

only started proper record keeping after 2013

I still haven't :) Still remember all the specimens and places taking into consideration I have a small selection of sites and a modest collection in general. But it's a bad habit as with time one can forget a lot. But there's good news for lazy people:1) with learning more about sites and stratigraphy you can get to know more about specimen's provenance than you did at the time of it's discovery (judging by the matrix, appearance , circle of species, etc) 2) taking lots of pictures on fossil hunts really helps to define provenance afterwards

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Wrangellian

I regret buying this one a little bit, only to find out, as so many have with Moroccan fossils, that it's partially reconstructed (and not very well so), but on the other hand I don't think I paid a lot for it and I don't know if a better one would be affordable for me.

Floian.jpg.0a1b5f0ebe6b33a485b42c568d55ccf4.jpg

 

The biggest regret is the fossil that never arrived after I paid a 3-digit price for it! (by far the most I've ever spent on a fossil). Just never arrived. It was coming from the US. The thing is I had bought fossils from this dealer not long before and they arrived fine, and I figured shipping from the US was pretty reliable. So I had a cheap moment and turned down the extra cost of tracking, as I felt I was already spending enough on the item itself. Lesson learned.

 

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-Andy-
4 minutes ago, Wrangellian said:

I regret buying this one a little bit, only to find out, as so many have with Moroccan fossils, that it's partially reconstructed (and not very well so), but on the other hand I don't think I paid a lot for it and I don't know if a better one would be affordable for me.

 

The biggest regret is the fossil that never arrived after I paid a 3-digit price for it! (by far the most I've ever spent on a fossil). Just never arrived. It was coming from the US. The thing is I had bought fossils from this dealer not long before and they arrived fine, and I figured shipping from the US was pretty reliable. So I had a cheap moment and turned down the extra cost of tracking, as I felt I was already spending enough on the item itself. Lesson learned.

 

 

The trilobite still looks nice

 

Sorry to hear about the fossil that never arrived. Was there any kind of insurance or remuneration by the seller?

 

I once made a terrible mistake of refusing insurance or tracking for a fossil just to keep costs low. Seller warned me outright that would be on me if the fossil was lost but I didn't listen. Fossil never did arrive. Thankfully, it wasn't too expensive

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musicnfossils
On 2020-05-25 at 12:30 AM, Masp said:

Point is, I was thrilled being that for the first time, I was seeing some incredible fossils that I wouldn’t have came across otherwise...so I cranked the dial on impulse buying to 10. That same day I almost purchased a completely fabricated Spinosaurus claw, which to this day I’m so happy I passed on. 

 

I understand this feeling. The first fossil I ever bought I blew 600 dollars on...I didn’t know jack, it was a large vert with like 70% restoration. For whatever reason I really wanted a Dino vert in my collection more than anything else. My stupid self really thought it was in that good of condition, that it really came out of the ground like that. :DOH:

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FF7_Yuffie
3 hours ago, musicnfossils said:

 

I understand this feeling. The first fossil I ever bought I blew 600 dollars on...I didn’t know jack, it was a large vert with like 70% restoration. For whatever reason I really wanted a Dino vert in my collection more than anything else. My stupid self really thought it was in that good of condition, that it really came out of the ground like that. :DOH:

 

I feel so grateful for the ID section here for thst reason. Posters here have saved me from buying no end of snarge lol or decent but misidentified items.

 

Unless its something obvious, I double check now :)

 

If it gets the all clear... to the buy list it goes.

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Bobby Rico
4 hours ago, FF7_Yuffie said:

Posters here have saved me from buying no end of snarge lol or decent but misidentified items.

 

Unless its something obvious, I double check now :)

 

 

 

That’s great to hear . I probably have had some wrongly identified specimens from our favourite auction site but I never spend much money and only buy if a good location is in the description ( this is essential) so they always turn out fine.  As you said better to ask questions on the forum first and  before you buy. Sometimes our favourite online sites can be lottery not because the sellers are dishonest but it is easy to make mistakes. A good rule I have learned from Frank aka troodon do not trust seller IDs but gain the knowledge for yourself. 
 

The polar opposite to this thread but in keeping with my post. I won on our favourite auction site a really beautiful edmontosaurus toe bone for little money because the seller said it maybe a replica. I thought when I won it that I have never heard of a replica edmontosaurus toe bone but claw yes. I received It and it was real and perfect. I ask the seller why they had said it maybe a replica they said they could not tell if it was real or a replica and only wanted good feedback . It was a good job I was not after an replica then  :default_rofl:

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Wrangellian
On 5/26/2020 at 11:18 PM, -Andy- said:

The trilobite still looks nice

Sorry to hear about the fossil that never arrived. Was there any kind of insurance or remuneration by the seller?

I once made a terrible mistake of refusing insurance or tracking for a fossil just to keep costs low. Seller warned me outright that would be on me if the fossil was lost but I didn't listen. Fossil never did arrive. Thankfully, it wasn't too expensive

Missed replying to this until now...

Thanks, I'm glad I'm not the only one who has had such a naive moment! As I recall, I waited too long (more than a month) to contact the seller, hoping that it was just a delayed delivery and I didn't want to come across as impatient. When I finally contacted seller he acted initially like he was willing to make it right with either a replacement or refund, and apparently tried to track down the package but of course could not, as it was shipped cross-border without tracking, and ultimately stopped responding to my messages. I guess he really didn't want to make it right.

He had said he was out of that particular kind of fossil and that the site they came out of was closed, but some time later I saw him selling a similar fossil that would have been an acceptable replacement.

For me it was a lesson.

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RuMert
4 hours ago, Wrangellian said:

he acted initially like he was willing to make it right

Typical behavior. Trying to win time and make conversation exhausting for the other party while  not saying outright he will do nothing

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-Andy-
13 hours ago, Wrangellian said:

Missed replying to this until now...

Thanks, I'm glad I'm not the only one who has had such a naive moment! As I recall, I waited too long (more than a month) to contact the seller, hoping that it was just a delayed delivery and I didn't want to come across as impatient. When I finally contacted seller he acted initially like he was willing to make it right with either a replacement or refund, and apparently tried to track down the package but of course could not, as it was shipped cross-border without tracking, and ultimately stopped responding to my messages. I guess he really didn't want to make it right.

He had said he was out of that particular kind of fossil and that the site they came out of was closed, but some time later I saw him selling a similar fossil that would have been an acceptable replacement.

For me it was a lesson.

 

Yeah we all make mistakes like that

 

Sadly and amusingly, I did the same thing as you. I waited too long to contact the seller as I didn't want to admit the shipment was problematic since he did warned me earlier. When I contacted him eventually, he wasn't helpful at all and gave me one or two replies before ignoring me entirely, as if he wanted to say: I told you so

 

It's an expensive lesson but one we all gotta learn

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Wrangellian
6 hours ago, -Andy- said:

It's an expensive lesson but one we all gotta learn

Yeah, but why did I have to learn it on the most expensive fossil purchase I've ever made?? :angry:

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FF7_Yuffie
7 hours ago, -Andy- said:

 

Yeah we all make mistakes like that

 

Sadly and amusingly, I did the same thing as you. I waited too long to contact the seller as I didn't want to admit the shipment was problematic since he did warned me earlier. When I contacted him eventually, he wasn't helpful at all and gave me one or two replies before ignoring me entirely, as if he wanted to say: I told you so

 

It's an expensive lesson but one we all gotta learn

 

 

This is why, unless its a dealer whose reputation is solid, I always email new dealers I havent used before first before buying more expensive fossils with a small query.

 

No reply or big delay reply, I don't buy because I figure they'll be a pain in the if there is a problem.

 

Of course, during COVID, that doesnt apply becausr things are upended.

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-Andy-
8 hours ago, Wrangellian said:

Yeah, but why did I have to learn it on the most expensive fossil purchase I've ever made?? :angry:

 

Ouch, sorry to hear that. It really is just bad luck of the worst sort

 

8 hours ago, FF7_Yuffie said:

 

 

This is why, unless its a dealer whose reputation is solid, I always email new dealers I havent used before first before buying more expensive fossils with a small query.

 

No reply or big delay reply, I don't buy because I figure they'll be a pain in the if there is a problem.

 

Of course, during COVID, that doesnt apply becausr things are upended.

 

This is somewhat different. Whether it's a new dealer or an established one, never purchase a fossil without tracking involved

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Wrangellian
7 hours ago, -Andy- said:

Ouch, sorry to hear that. It really is just bad luck of the worst sort

Yes, and the worst part (besides the hit my pocketbook took) is not knowing for certain what happened to the fossil, ie. did the seller send it and it went missing en route, or did he take advantage of my opting out of tracking and keep it. I doubt the latter, but anything is possible. However, when I mentioned this story before of TFF, I was given the impression that it could be just as likely that the Customs agents at the border might have pulverised it looking for drugs. To be fair to the seller, I did receive the fossils I ordered from him previously. So I'm left wondering whether the seller deserves quite the negative opinion. He might have been just as suspicious of me, as there is no way I could prove to him that the fossil didn't arrive, I could only hope he took my word for it (and I guess he didn't though he never said so outright).

So the lesson is, of course, always ask for tracking!

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-Andy-
On 6/4/2020 at 8:45 AM, Wrangellian said:

Yes, and the worst part (besides the hit my pocketbook took) is not knowing for certain what happened to the fossil, ie. did the seller send it and it went missing en route, or did he take advantage of my opting out of tracking and keep it. I doubt the latter, but anything is possible. However, when I mentioned this story before of TFF, I was given the impression that it could be just as likely that the Customs agents at the border might have pulverised it looking for drugs. To be fair to the seller, I did receive the fossils I ordered from him previously. So I'm left wondering whether the seller deserves quite the negative opinion. He might have been just as suspicious of me, as there is no way I could prove to him that the fossil didn't arrive, I could only hope he took my word for it (and I guess he didn't though he never said so outright).

So the lesson is, of course, always ask for tracking!

 

One wild but not impossible theory is that someone else took the fossil

 

1) My friend's near-complete skeleton fossil from China was seized by his customs. Thankfully, his country doesn't have repatriation laws with China (which was why my friend was brave enough to import it in the first place). He went to the customs to find out what's going on, and given the lack of respect and unprofessional attitudes given by the officers there, he guessed that they were planning to keep the skeleton for themselves. Point is - they refused to return the skeleton to him.

 

My friend headed back to the office with a lawyer's letter. The same officers, upon receiving the letter, turned white and immediately returned the skeleton to him. They even ask/hinted to him that there would be no trouble now, right? They also asked/hinted him in apparent fear not to escalate the matter. Since my friend got his fossil back undamaged, he let the matter rest

 

2) I mentioned this story in TFF before. My friend had a large and impressive ammonite that was supposed to be delivered to him on a particular day. He was even tracking it actively on my country's (we live in Singapore) postal site. He never received the ammonite but the tracking says it was delivered.

 

When he called the postal service, they confirmed that not only was the package successfully delivered on a particular time, they even got the owner's signature. My friend argued that he was at home all the way, and he never did receive the package. The postal company then claimed the sender must have written a wrong address, and my friend should take it up with the sender.

 

My friend contacted the sender, who claimed that he did write the correct address. Now, it was a matter of my friend being bounced between the sender and postal company, both refusing to admit fault. The postal company refused to give my friend the address they sent the package to, saying it's a breach of privacy to reveal the address.

 

2 weeks later, my friend was still calling and sending emails to both parties, though he had half given up. Surprisingly, the postal company turned up at his door with the package. Upon opening it, my friend realized that it was hastily resealed, and the ammonite wasn't in bubble wrap which was weird because his seller always used bubble wrap. His guess is that someone else received his parcel by mistake, and probably kept it for 2 weeks before opening it. Thankfully, they were honest folks who immediately realized this wasn't theirs and so they contacted the postal company to return it to the right owner

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Wrangellian

In my case I doubt they would have known what they were looking at... it was certainly not an obvious thing like a skeleton. I can just picture them receiving my fossil (to them nothing more than a slab of clayish rock with a lump on it!) and maybe their dogs detected pot on it (from the seller), and they had to break it apart to see what it contained. Having destroyed it, would they have bothered to send it on to me, or just toss it in the trash?

But your comments have me wondering just how 'above board' all of our postal and customs workers operate. I think ours over here in this part of the world are generally pretty good, and my only problem was with that one fossil that never arrived (if it was even them), but in other parts of the world it sounds like a big gamble to ship things internationally. Glad your friend's cases were resolved, anyway.

 

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hadrosauridae

Our mail carriers are horrible and always delivering mail and packages to the wrong houses.  Just last night they dropped off 2 packages that went to the people across the street.  All it takes is a bad delivery and a dishonest person who doesnt care to do the right thing.

 

I have also "stalked" my deliveries online while sitting at home all day waiting.  Then getting a "delivered" notice when the delivery truck hasnt even been on my street.

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