Sharks of SC Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Hello everyone, I found this bone yesterday (12-14-09) on a beach in Charleston, SC and wondered what it was. It looks reletively complete - I dont see any breaks. I stumbled on a few pictures of whale inner ear bones that look similar, but no perfect matches. Any ideas? Thanks, CBK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Dolphin. Periotic bone Galveston Island 32 miles long 2 miles wide 134 bars 23 liquor stores any questions? Evolution is Chimp Change. Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain! "I like to listen. I have learned a great deal from listening carefully. Most people never listen." Ernest Hemingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Forgot to say very nice find. Galveston Island 32 miles long 2 miles wide 134 bars 23 liquor stores any questions? Evolution is Chimp Change. Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain! "I like to listen. I have learned a great deal from listening carefully. Most people never listen." Ernest Hemingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharks of SC Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edd Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Yep... " We're all puppets, I'm just a puppet who can see the strings. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 It's so complete! Really nice "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 This looks like a kentriodontid dolphin periotic - not from a porpoise; porpoises (family Phocoenidae) do not have a pre-pleistocene fossil record on the east coast. Are there any Miocene rocks around Charleston, or is it all Oligocene Ashley/Chandler Bridge Formation? Kentriodontids *are* known from the Oligocene, but very rarely, and are abundant in Miocene rocks. I'll take a look at some publications later, it may be possible to get a genus ID. Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharks of SC Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Im pretty sure we I only ever find oligocene stuff. I didn't think we had porpoise here...I had just seen a similar specimen labeled "porpoise" in a collection of stuff from Calvert Cliffs. We have a very healthy population of bottle-nose dolphins here in the lowcountry, so thats a likely candidate. CBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Oh, no, that's definitely fossil - 1) it definitely isn't a Tursiops periotic, or a delphinid periotic, and 2) no extant toothed whale has a periotic shaped like that. It looks a bit like Liolithax - I didn't bother checking my references today, so I'll take another look tommorrow. Hmm... that *could* be a significant specimen... Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharks of SC Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Boesse, I look foward to seeing what you come up with. Marine mammals are not my strong suit. Im going to see if I can find the site where I found the original pictures! Thnaks, CBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 My guess is that it belonged to the platanistid, Pomatodelphis, from the Middle Miocene. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Doesn't really look like a platanistid or platanistoid at all - their periotics have much longer anterior and posterior processes, with a highly sinuous medial border. It especially doesn't look like extant Platanista. The large pars cochlearis of this specimen is more typical of a delphinoid. Overall, the specimen is most similar to kentriodontids; it really looks like Nannolithax (which is only known from the east coast by a few specimens). I can't seem to find any figures of periotics of Pomatodelphis specifically, however. Harry, do you happen to know of any publications with figures of reliably associated periotics with Pomatodelphis crania? I can't remember if Allen figured any periotics. Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Doesn't really look like a platanistid or platanistoid at all - their periotics have much longer anterior and posterior processes, with a highly sinuous medial border. It especially doesn't look like extant Platanista. The large pars cochlearis of this specimen is more typical of a delphinoid. Overall, the specimen is most similar to kentriodontids; it really looks like Nannolithax (which is only known from the east coast by a few specimens). I can't seem to find any figures of periotics of Pomatodelphis specifically, however. Harry, do you happen to know of any publications with figures of reliably associated periotics with Pomatodelphis crania? I can't remember if Allen figured any periotics. Bobby I based my guess on the illustration on pp. 338 of Hulbert's THE FOSSIL VERTEBRATES OF FLORIDA. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy 55 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Sure looks like that one Harry. It's my bone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Could someone post a scan of the figure? I scanned the cetacean section of that book years ago, but can't find the files for it. Anyway, there's a pretty big age difference between the late Oligocene units in the Charleston area and the middle Miocene; it *could* be a similar taxon, but it really doesn't show any platanistid features. Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesta384 Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 I would like to bump ths thread...i have a couple bones that will take pics of and post asap. i have a periotic and a tympanic i would love an opinion on. from the shores of the York river in VA. pics to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesta384 Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 heres mine! foudn on the beaches of the york river....allll kinds of stuff in that mix. luckily the white crust helps define the shape. sorry for the picture quality. no idea where my digital camera memory card is. had to resort to cell phone. any idea on species? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Could someone post a scan of the figure? I scanned the cetacean section of that book years ago, but can't find the files for it. Anyway, there's a pretty big age difference between the late Oligocene units in the Charleston area and the middle Miocene; it *could* be a similar taxon, but it really doesn't show any platanistid features. Bobby Here ya' go, Bobby . . . http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesta384 Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Here ya' go, Bobby . . . thanks harry. deffinately looks like my tympanic.... :/ you and boesse throw down good arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Harry, Ya, there's not really much similarity except for both of them looking like small odontocete periotics. For starters, Pomatodelphis' periotic is huge - 37mm long - looks like it's a bit larger than that specimen. Pomatodelphis (and other platanistids) have a very small promontorium, which is very large in the original specimen posted above (typical delphinoid periotics have an enlarged cochlea/promontorium). Thirdly, the anterior process is inflated in Pomatodelphis, and it is much smaller, narrower, and shorter in the kentriodontid periotic. The kentriodontid also has a much better defined dorsal process (which is partially an ontogenetic feature). It also appears to lack an anterior tympanic articulation (a synapomorphy of the Delphinoidea), which all non delphinoids (including platanistids) still have (although the feature isn't very obvious on the scanned image. And Jesta, your specimen - it is missing the pars cochlearis/ promontorium (the big round portion) and much of the tympanic, but it (based at least on the anterior process, which is inflated in most platanistids) doesn't appear to be Pomatodelphis either. If you could take photos of it from the directions of the other photos, then it would be much easier to tell. Bobby 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmorefossil Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 Im pretty sure we I only ever find oligocene stuff. I didn't think we had porpoise here...I had just seen a similar specimen labeled "porpoise" in a collection of stuff from Calvert Cliffs. We have a very healthy population of bottle-nose dolphins here in the lowcountry, so thats a likely candidate. CBK that's because most fossil hunters and some experts think that porpoise did once populate in and around the east coast but Bobby once told me that they didn't and only dolphins and whales were around durring the Miocene. Tell me if I'm wrong Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 Yes - the term porpoise specifically refers to phocoenids, which are not known from the West Atlantic fossil record (but an early Pliocene phocoenid was recently described from the east atlantic). In any event, the term porpoise as applied to small toothed whales (including kentriodontids, eurhinodelphids, and other generalized odontocetes) is a trash-can term that has no real meaning, and ends up being misleading as it may easily be taken to mean 'phocoenid'. Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesta384 Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 i cant get my digicam operational. i guess ill try the cell phone again but in more natural light. so....ok then...if no one has documented it i think its safe to rule out phocoenids...does any one have any other scans of pliocene/miocene Delphinidae ears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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