Show us your Squaliformes teeth !!!

[Notidanodon]

It was collected from the bottom of the cliff, past that I have nothing, @siteseer I have some teeth from here, would you mind helping me to identify them. These all came from the same bed though so they are of similar age

4 hours ago, fossilsonwheels said:

Hi Jess

 

I have no additional geological information but I can ask @will stevenson if he has any additional information. 

 

All my ID’s are based on either Miocene papers I’ve looked at or comparisons to extant teeth and are best guesses. The labels are temporary lol They are hard to ID but it’s a great learning experience. Lots of reading and looking at teeth. 

 

 

 

[siteseer]

On 2/3/2021 at 2:08 AM, will stevenson said:

It was collected from the bottom of the cliff, past that I have nothing, @siteseer I have some teeth from here, would you mind helping me to identify them. These all came from the same bed though so they are of similar age

 

 

Hi Will,

 

Without knowing the age nor any documented specimens from the area with which to compare them especially with partial crowns, I would be guessing too.  It's a virtual certainty you couldn't name them to species since each one would be somewhat restricted to an area (a European species wouldn't be found in New Zealand).  With the fossil histories of many modern squaliform genera largely unknown, you hit a roadblock that way too.  If you have more complete specimens, it would be great to see them.  I think at this point, when a tentative ID is given, it might have to have "aff." in front of the genus to communicate that a specimen has affinities to (has characters of, or is apparently a close relative of) a genus but we are not certain. 

 

Jess

 

 

[siteseer]

I think reading this paper indicates how complicated it can be identifying fossil squaliform teeth.  For example, take Oligodalatias.  It appeared by the early Eocene surviving at least to the middle Miocene.  It's known from Europe and the Pacific coast of North America indicating a wide geographic range.  Welton compares teeth from various sites/ages to various other teeth using crown and root characters.  He is a researcher who has specialized in squaliforms across his career going back to the 70's.

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308794769_Welton_B_J_2016_A_new_dalatiid_shark_Squaliformes_Dalatiidae_from_the_early_Oligocene_of_Oregon_and_California_USA_in_Sullivan_R_M_and_Lucas_S_G_eds_New_Mexico_Museum_of_Natural_History_and_Science_Bu

[Notidanodon]

6 hours ago, siteseer said:

 

Hi Will,

 

Without knowing the age nor any documented specimens from the area with which to compare them especially with partial crowns, I would be guessing too.  It's a virtual certainty you couldn't name them to species since each one would be somewhat restricted to an area (a European species wouldn't be found in New Zealand).  With the fossil histories of many modern squaliform genera largely unknown, you hit a roadblock that way too.  If you have more complete specimens, it would be great to see them.  I think at this point, when a tentative ID is given, it might have to have "aff." in front of the genus to communicate that a specimen has affinities to (has characters of, or is apparently a close relative of) a genus but we are not certain. 

 

Jess

 

 

Squaliforms are a bit confusing to me lol, ill direct you to the thread where i posted them all, there are some more complete specimens there

Squaliforms

[siteseer]

On 2/5/2021 at 1:01 AM, will stevenson said:

Squaliforms are a bit confusing to me lol, ill direct you to the thread where i posted them all, there are some more complete specimens there

Squaliforms

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that thread.

 

Jess

[siteseer]

It's tough but I would say the 2nd and 3rd teeth seem more  like Dalatias, but since they are both just most of a crown, I don't think they can be identified with confidence.

 

I don't know what that first one is.  It looks thicker than the other teeth.  I'm wondering if it's the tip of a larger tooth of some other order of shark.

 

The 4th tooth looks like something similar to modern Euprotomicroides which is questionably known as a fossil from the middle Eocene of France.

 

The 5th tooth looks like it could an upper tooth of a squalid.

 

Yeah, for that last tooth it's tempting to say it's a Scymnodon lower anterior based on the elongated cusp.

 

Jess

[fossilsonwheels]

2 hours ago, siteseer said:

It's tough but I would say the 2nd and 3rd teeth seem more  like Dalatias, but since they are both just most of a crown, I don't think they can be identified with confidence.

 

I don't know what that first one is.  It looks thicker than the other teeth.  I'm wondering if it's the tip of a larger tooth of some other order of shark.

 

The 4th tooth looks like something similar to modern Euprotomicroides which is questionably known as a fossil from the middle Eocene of France.

 

The 5th tooth looks like it could an upper tooth of a squalid.

 

Yeah, for that last tooth it's tempting to say it's a Scymnodon lower anterior based on the elongated cusp.

 

Jess

Hi Jess

 

Thank you so much for contributing to the knowledge on the New Zealand teeth. You certainly helped me get a better sense of the difficulty involved in identifying these little mysteries and some of the possibilities. 

 

Kurt

[mamlambo]

Sorry, I'm a bit late to the thread, I have quite a number of teeth and a few vertebrae from the same location as the couple I sent to @will stevenson Here are some photos of the last batched I retrieved, I have a few more that need to be sifted out. Its all from the same layer and these were in about 9kg of silt that I carried back, its many km from the nearest road

I'd love to know a bit more about the teeth, whether it is one species or a number.

[siteseer]

Hi Mamlambo,

 

How did you know where to go to find these teeth?  What else do you find with them?  The layer must represent a deepwater environment if you're finding just or mostly these kind of teeth.  That's weird stuff.

 

Regarding ID, I would pick out a few of the most complete teeth (crown and root) and then try to get good photo of both sides.  Also, please provide measurements.  These teeth are unusual enough that they are hard to identify when they don't have most of the root and crown.  Not knowing the age, is a hindrance as well.  It's great stuff as it is.  You might have four different taxa there.  it's tough to say.

 

Jess

[Notidanodon]

@mamlambo I’m still trying to figure out the species myself  they are very weird, anyway definitely more than one species and I’ll send you a pm if I find any more info, the pm I sent a while ago has a few guesses

@siteseer its  on one of his YouTube videos, looked like an almost green sand like deposit like the cretaceous bits in England 

[mamlambo]

9 hours ago, siteseer said:

Hi Mamlambo,

 

How did you know where to go to find these teeth?  What else do you find with them?  The layer must represent a deepwater environment if you're finding just or mostly these kind of teeth.  That's weird stuff.

 

Regarding ID, I would pick out a few of the most complete teeth (crown and root) and then try to get good photo of both sides.  Also, please provide measurements.  These teeth are unusual enough that they are hard to identify when they don't have most of the root and crown.  Not knowing the age, is a hindrance as well.  It's great stuff as it is.  You might have four different taxa there.  it's tough to say.

 

Jess

 I noticed the layer look different to the other bits of the cliff so had a closer look and saw some teeth sticking out. It's siltstone with some sand and rocks mixed in, the rest of the cliff is siltstone. Age would be Mid Miocene and younger, the area is quite folded from all the earthquakes so very difficult to tell for sure.

[fossilsonwheels]

We unexpectedly found an Echinorhinus tooth from a location I’ve wanted to add. Plus this would fit in the excellent bargain category of the budget lol I’ll get better pics soon. It’s tiny. 

 

Echinorhinus zheleskovi 

Eocene 

Mangushlak Kazakhstan 

[Notidanodon]

46 minutes ago, fossilsonwheels said:

We unexpectedly found an Echinorhinus tooth from a location I’ve wanted to add. Plus this would fit in the excellent bargain category of the budget lol I’ll get better pics soon. It’s tiny. 

 

Echinorhinus zheleskovi 

Eocene 

Mangushlak Kazakhstan 

WOW! never seen one of those before! quick spelling correction, its mangyshlak

[Untitled]

Here’s an extremely rare Squaliform:
 

Oligodalatias sp.

Middle Miocene (Langhian)

Bonpas, France

[fossilsonwheels]

12 hours ago, Untitled said:

Here’s an extremely rare Squaliform:
 

Oligodalatias sp.

Middle Miocene (Langhian)

Bonpas, France

Extremely rare and awesome ! Great addition to your collection and a great addition to this thread. 

[Untitled]

11 hours ago, fossilsonwheels said:

Extremely rare and awesome ! Great addition to your collection and a great addition to this thread. 

Thank you!  Took a long time to acquire this genus.  
 

Here’s one of my rarest squaliformes, locality-wise:

 

Squalus sp.

Pleistocene (Gelasian)

Kanzawa, Sagamihara-shi

Kanagawa, Japan

[fossilsonwheels]

3 hours ago, Untitled said:

Thank you!  Took a long time to acquire this genus.  
 

Here’s one of my rarest squaliformes, locality-wise:

 

Squalus sp.

Pleistocene (Gelasian)

Kanzawa, Sagamihara-shi

Kanagawa, Japan

What a really cool, super rare location and a pretty little tooth. Thanks for adding this one to thread too. You have an awesome collection of Squaliformes teeth Ben !

[fossilsonwheels]

Some recent additions thanks to micro matrix searches. 

 

Squalus sp 

Miocene

Calvert Formation 

Virginia

[Untitled]

Posted this tooth a couple times in a couple places on this forum, but it’s one of my favorites, and a squaliform:

 

Dalatias licha

Late Pliocene-Early Pleistocene 

Cisubuh Formation 

Ciberon

North Central Java, Indonesia 

 

[siteseer]

Wow, that's a great tooth.

 

Jess

[fossilsonwheels]

We recently lucked out and acquired 5 Squaliformes teeth from the Northumberland Formation. 4 came from our awesome friend @Troodon and we found an additional one from a new source not on TFF. The 2019 publication on this fauna provided the opportunity to do some really fun research and ID these little beauties. I’m pretty confident in three ID’s. 

 

The smallest one was the easiest to ID. It has a pretty unique morphology. I didn’t photograph the other side but it fits the publication perfectly. It’s an upper tooth though I believe a different position from the 4 in the publication. 

 

Procentrophorus steviae

Upper Campanian

Northumberland Formation 

Hornby Island

BC Canada

 

 

[fossilsonwheels]

I also feel pretty good about the ID on these two but these are best guesses. I am no expert lol I used not only the publication for this fauna but also a publication on a Paleocene fauna from Denmark. The extant species of Centroscymnus are super cool critters and are a fantastic addition from an educational angle.  

 

This is a shark known to live at depths of over 12,000 feet which makes this the deepest living of all known sharks. They have also green eyes that are adapted to see the specific lightwaves emitted by their prey. Really fascinating sharks and I’m really quite thrilled to add these to our collection. 

 

The paper does not assign a species due to lack of upper teeth and scarcity in the fauna. 

 

Centroscymnus  sp. 

Upper Campanian

Northumberland Formation 

Hornby Island

BC Canada 

[fossilsonwheels]

The last two I am less sure of. I’ve probably over thought this one and talked myself out of the ID several times lol 

 

 So tentative ID

 

Squaliodalatias savoiei 

Northumberland Frm 

Hornby Island 

BC Canada

 

 

[hokietech96]

Found this 1mm tooth in matrix from @sharkdoctor.  The matrix was collect from Calvert Formation from a river site in Virginia.

[fossilsonwheels]

31 minutes ago, hokietech96 said:

Found this 1mm tooth in matrix from @sharkdoctor.  The matrix was collect from Calvert Formation from a river site in Virginia.

Very nice find. Excellent tooth. Did Aaron send you the link to the publication?  There are two species, neither named, in the Calvert. Pretty cool matrix to pick through.