diginupbones Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 No idea what this is from but it is in really nice shape and completely fossilized. North central Nebraska. Miocene 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val horn Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 I googled heart shaped vertebrae in the hope it would suggest species. Didn’t find much other than suggestion that it is thoracic vertebrae Nebraska has land and marine formation do you know which this is from? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRatKing Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 It has some wear on it, but is a nice find. There is no Miocene era marine stuff however-that stuff is from much much earlier and primarily in the eastern half of the state. given the size of this bit and the color, I have an idea whereabouts you found it. There are any number of small mammals there, and reptiles that this could be part of. I’m more of an invertebrate person though. Theres quite a few vert specialists around here though! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diginupbones Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, LabRatKing said: It has some wear on it, but is a nice find. There is no Miocene era marine stuff however-that stuff is from much much earlier and primarily in the eastern half of the state. given the size of this bit and the color, I have an idea whereabouts you found it. There are any number of small mammals there, and reptiles that this could be part of. I’m more of an invertebrate person though. Theres quite a few vert specialists around here though! Yep, no marine stuff in my hunting area that I am aware of. Sadly, no dinos either. I am not sure who the vert specialists are on this form but feel free to tag any that you are aware of! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Not much for either Miocene or terrestrial tetrapods, but the elongated shape and way the neural arch is constructed kind of reminds me of some kind of lizard. Can't help you much further than that, though. Below are some images for comparison: Varanus mokrensis sp. nov.. Fig. 6, Ivanov, Martin & Ruta, Marcello & Klembara, Jozef & Böhme, Madelaine (2017). A new species of Varanus (Anguimorpha: Varanidae) from the early Miocene of the Czech Republic, and its relationships and palaeoecology. Journal of Systematic Palaeontology. Dorsal vertebrae of Lacerta trilineata. Fig. 2, Tschopp (2016). Nomenclature of Vertebral Laminae in Lizards, with Comments on Ontogenetic and Serial Variation in Lacertini (Squamata, Lacertidae). PLoS ONE 11(2) Palaeosaniwa sp. vertebra from the Hell Creek Formation. Though I'm not sure amount his knowledge on lizards, may be @jpc might know more, seeing as he was so kind to help me identify an Eocene Glyptosaur osteoderm I found... 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Snake ? Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 12 minutes ago, Coco said: Snake ? Coco I thought about that too. But snake vertebrae, as far as I can tell, have a smaller vertebral centrum relative to total vertebral body (i.e. the neural arch and processes). The proportions in this case seem more akin to what I've seen with lizards. Still, both are squamates, so I guess they would look similar... 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRatKing Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 14 hours ago, diginupbones said: Yep, no marine stuff in my hunting area that I am aware of. Sadly, no dinos either. I am not sure who the vert specialists are on this form but feel free to tag any that you are aware of! Thanks I'm in agreement with @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon in the turtle/lizard line of thinking. I'll dig through my archives here on campus later today...the more I look at the photos, the more I feel I have something similar in the "collections" here from that area. Were you north or south of the Niobrarra? A bit more locality data would be very helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diginupbones Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 26 minutes ago, LabRatKing said: I'm in agreement with @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon in the turtle/lizard line of thinking. I'll dig through my archives here on campus later today...the more I look at the photos, the more I feel I have something similar in the "collections" here from that area. Were you north or south of the Niobrarra? A bit more locality data would be very helpful! This particular spot is actually south of the Niobrara. I’ve been trying to research this a little more also and I came across some information on a past excavation almost in the exact area. They are calling this area Miocene (Clarendon) ash hollow formation so that may help narrow it down quite a bit. Also, I found this vert next to that tooth and jaw that I recently posted that was potentially identified as alligator/croc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRatKing Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, diginupbones said: This particular spot is actually south of the Niobrara. I’ve been trying to research this a little more also and I came across some information on a past excavation almost in the exact area. They are calling this area Miocene (Clarendon) ash hollow formation so that may help narrow it down quite a bit. Also, I found this vert next to that tooth and jaw that I recently posted that was potentially identified as alligator/croc. I think you and I need to meet up there in the future, I just recently started excursions into the various formations of the Ogllala group as I am pretty bored with the Pennsylvanian stuff down here. I'm digging through our archives now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Varanids and snakes both (and crocs) have ball and socket ends to the centrum. This is more flat sided. I looked at this a while back and did not feel I could answer the question. But I can say it is not snake or varanid. It has almost vertical zygapopheses... I think that shows up in mammal lumbars. Either a mammal lumbar, or a lizard, but it owuld be too big, I think , for any Miocene lizard in Nebraska. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 4 hours ago, jpc said: Varanids and snakes both (and crocs) have ball and socket ends to the centrum. This is more flat sided. True. This made me ditch the idea of crocodile, and made doubt snake and, actually, even lizard. I'm not familiar enough with either of the latter taxa to completely exclude platycoelous vertebrae, though. But, now that I'm actually thinking about it: mosasaurs, being another group of squamates, also have procoelous vertebra. So the procoelous vertebral condition is probably a synapomorphy (or shared trait) for Episquamata, if not the the entire order of Squamata. This would rule out lizard as an origin for the vertebra... 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diginupbones Posted October 19, 2020 Author Share Posted October 19, 2020 On 10/15/2020 at 9:59 PM, jpc said: Varanids and snakes both (and crocs) have ball and socket ends to the centrum. This is more flat sided. I looked at this a while back and did not feel I could answer the question. But I can say it is not snake or varanid. It has almost vertical zygapopheses... I think that shows up in mammal lumbars. Either a mammal lumbar, or a lizard, but it owuld be too big, I think , for any Miocene lizard in Nebraska. I thought this chart might be helpful to members for future identifications. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 8 hours ago, diginupbones said: I thought this chart might be helpful to members for future identifications. Nice overview! Really cool to see actual vertebra to exemplify the vertebral types, as well as having the most common types of animals with these types of vertebra mentioned with it. Myself, I typically refer to the below sheet (from WikiMedia Commons): 2 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diginupbones Posted November 26, 2021 Author Share Posted November 26, 2021 Thought I would bring this back from the dead for one more look. Never really did get a solid ID on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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