A horn or shell? Or fenestellid structure?

[Ramona]

I hope, hope, hope that I don't wear out my welcome by asking questions about rocks with Fenestellan Bryozoan fossils in them!  That's about all I got around here, but I do get other items IN those rocks that I don't recognize, like this one.  Thanks so much to those guys who take the time to read and answer my questions - over and over again, LOL!  

This is yet another rock that I found in my yard and it is filled with what looks like layers of a variety of fenestellan bryozoan fossils? I have included a photo that shows what I am talking about, so please correct me if I am wrong!  There is this shell like structure, though, that I am puzzled about.  Is it part of the fenestellan colony or something totally different.  I have studied the post about 3D structure of the fenestellan colonies and I don't think there is anything like this in them... But I could easily have missed something.   I have more photos if needed?  I also think I see some Rugosa coral on this rock, along with a few other things, but I will only ask one question at a time. ;-)  

Thanks!
Ramona

[Ramona]

OK, looking at my own photo here, I can see fenestellan fossils in the top of this round thing... So, what does that mean?!  Have they invaded whatever it is? Or is this part of their colony? Educate me, please! ;-) 

[Ramona]

I'm posting a closer photo with a bit more detail of that "thing".  

[Ramona]

Well, if I keep this up, I might answer my own question!  Here is yet another angle with more detail, and I am seeing more fenestellan elements... But again, I can see where maybe they just moved into an empty house? Or did they work like that?

[Fossildude19]

I see a brachiopod. Specifically, the pedicle, partial umbo, delthyrium, palintrope, and hinge line. 

 

 

 

 

 

The bryozoan may have been an encrusting species, or a colony could have formed up on the shell after the brachiopod died. 

 

 

Slight correction, also. The word to use wouldn't be Fenestellan, but Fenestellid.   

 

From Merriam Webster Online:

 

"Definition of fenestellid : a bryozoan of the genus Fenestella or the family Fenestellidae."

[Ramona]

1 hour ago, Fossildude19 said:

I see a brachiopod. Specifically, the pedicle, partial umbo, delthyrium, palintrope, and hinge line. 

The bryozoan may have been an encrusting species, or a colony could have formed up on the shell after the brachiopod died. 

 

Slight correction, also. The word to use wouldn't be Fenestellan, but Fenestellid.   

 

From Merriam Webster Online:

 

"Definition of fenestellid : a bryozoan of the genus Fenestella or the family Fenestellidae."

Now THAT makes sense!!  I get it!  So I could have been right about them moving into an "empty house"?  Cool!  And I am never quite sure when to use the words fenestellan and fenestellid - what is the difference?  Thanks for helping with my education!  ;-)

Ramona

[Ramona]

Just now, Ramona said:

Now THAT makes sense!!  I get it!  So I could have been right about them moving into an "empty house"?  Cool!  And I am never quite sure when to use the words fenestellan and fenestellid - what is the difference?  Thanks for helping with my education!  ;-)

Ramona

Oh! I see now where you quoted the definition!  Could you elaborate on that a bit more, please?

[Fossildude19]

1 hour ago, Ramona said:

Oh! I see now where you quoted the definition!  Could you elaborate on that a bit more, please?

 

Well, if you look up Fenestellan, the word doesn't exist.  Therefore, it shouldn't be used. 

 

Fenestellid refers to genus or family of Fenestella bryozoans. 

 

Another way to refer to them would be "Fenestrate" which means having small perforations or transparent areas. 

A "fenestrate" bryozoan would imply that it looks like a fenestella type bryozoan, without being specific about an ID. 

 

And that is it. You've tapped the knowledge I have of these bizarre creatures.   

 

 

[FossilNerd]

11 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

Another way to refer to them would be "Fenestrate" which means having small perforations or transparent areas. 

A "fenestrate" bryozoan would imply that it looks like a fenestella type bryozoan, without being specific about an ID. 

I typically do as Tim mentioned here and use “fenestrate” to describe these type of bryozoan. The word implies what type of bryozoan it is without being too specific (and possibly wrong) about an ID.

 

13 hours ago, Ramona said:

I hope, hope, hope that I don't wear out my welcome by asking questions

Nah. You are good. How do we learn if we don’t ask questions? As long as you are willing to learn we are willing to help, and so far you have been more than willing.  
 

I also think Tim is right on his brachiopod valve guess. 
 

I try to remember what it was like when the animal was alive. In this case the fenestrate bryozoans you find were not alone. There would have been other animals living (and dying) right along with them. You may not find evidence of them often, if the particular area you hunt was especially dense with bryozoans, but they would have been there. 

[Ramona]

On 10/15/2020 at 7:51 PM, Fossildude19 said:

 

Well, if you look up Fenestellan, the word doesn't exist.  Therefore, it shouldn't be used. 

 

Fenestellid refers to genus or family of Fenestella bryozoans. 

 

Another way to refer to them would be "Fenestrate" which means having small perforations or transparent areas. 

A "fenestrate" bryozoan would imply that it looks like a fenestella type bryozoan, without being specific about an ID. 

 

And that is it. You've tapped the knowledge I have of these bizarre creatures.   

 

 

Thank you so much! I appreciate it more than you know!  I like to use correct language, but I don't always understand what to say, so this is very helpful.  So I would be correct in saying those were layers of fenestrate bryozoan fossils, right?  Then, if I wanted/was able to dig deeper for specific identification I could do that?  

Thanks again!!

Ramona

[Ramona]

On 10/16/2020 at 7:07 AM, FossilNerd said:

I typically do as Tim mentioned here and use “fenestrate” to describe these type of bryozoan. The word implies what type of bryozoan it is without being too specific (and possibly wrong) about an ID.

 

Nah. You are good. How do we learn if we don’t ask questions? As long as you are willing to learn we are willing to help, and so far you have been more than willing.  
 

I also think Tim is right on his brachiopod valve guess. 
 

I try to remember what it was like when the animal was alive. In this case the fenestrate bryozoans you find were not alone. There would have been other animals living (and dying) right along with them. You may not find evidence of them often, if the particular area you hunt was especially dense with bryozoans, but they would have been there. 

Thank you!  I would much rather imply something in a more broad manner than be incorrect about its identification.  I don't say that out of pride (at least I don't think so, LOL), but I don't want to set myself up as an expert when I'm NOT, thus "teaching" others the wrong things, too.  

 

And what you said there, about thinking what it was like when the animals were alive, is exactly what I have been trying to do!  I have been trying to wrap my head around an understanding of the environment these creatures lived in and how they moved about around each other.  Sometimes I will sit a particularly large rock down and look at it from different angles, figuring out which way it was laying in the water, how the water might have been flowing, etc.  That helps me to visualize the environment, too.  And yes, the area I am in is very dense with bryozoans, but I am eager to learn about them and see what else might be here!  Now that the weather is cooler I am walking around more and finding more and more rocks down farther in the creek bed.  :-)  

 

Please be on the lookout for a post coming up from me that I am going to need help with!  I brought home a huge rock from our son's land in Pulaski, TN, and I have taken a few photos of it already.  Oh my!!  It has DIFFERENT stuff on it and I don't know where to start, LOL!!  But I also see some familiar stuff, now that I have been learning.  You guys are the greatest!  Thanks so much for your help!

Ramona