MarcoSr Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 I recently found this 9mm by 7mm specimen in matrix from the Eocene Nanjemoy Formatiion of Virginia. I think it is a piece of a Chimaera tooth plate. However, in collecting the Nanjemoy Formation in Virginia for over twenty years I have never found a Chimaera tooth plate or a fragment of one. For that reason I don't want to rule out a coral fragment. However, I haven't found a piece of coral in this formation before either. For comparison, a Chimaera tooth plate (25mm by 16mm) from the Paleocene Aquia Formation of Maryland: What do you think (especially the invertebrate/coral experts)? Marco Sr. 2 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRatKing Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 This is unlike any chimera plate I have ever seen. My knee jerk on the first photos was bryo in nature, but the later photos have me stumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Probably coral. Probably coral. Oh! What the ' is that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRatKing Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rockwood said: Probably coral. Probably coral. Oh! What the ' is that ? You said it, I was thinking it! One of these days I’ll swing by for ethanol research and we shall commiserate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRatKing Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 I love a challenge. These photos are kicking my gluteus.. So: Do you have a black light? It will help us photo desk jockeys. Are you willing/able to do streak and acid tests? I just ordered some intralibrary stuff that might help with this differential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Got one to run up the pole. Coral filled pholad borings in a fossil tree fern trunk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRatKing Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Rockwood said: Got one to run up the pole. Coral filled pholad borings in a fossil tree fern trunk. Hmmm... you doing Friday ethanol research too? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, LabRatKing said: you doing Friday ethanol research too? Not my substance any more. It came close to taking everything I have. I'm lucky there was enough left to rewire, and I had a wonderful woman (just a good friend) to teach me to travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRatKing Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Rockwood said: Not my substance any more. It came close to taking everything I have. I'm lucky there was enough left to rewire, and I had a wonderful woman (just a good friend) to teach me to travel. Even better. I’m in the same boat and measure allotments in milliliters. Fossil hunting is the only step. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Is that a straight cut through the specimen? 1 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oyo Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Nothing there seems to indicate coral. Corallites must have septa and are not visible. Coenosteum must made by isolated trabeculae, costae, disepiments, costal pali or a combination of this elements and it is not. To me that is not a coral. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Maybe something like echinoid scraping traces around entobian apertures? " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 22 minutes ago, abyssunder said: Maybe something like echinoid scraping traces around entobian apertures? Sounds like it could be one part of the puzzle. What do you suppose they're 'entobing' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfossilhunter Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Need cross section view if possible TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 2 hours ago, oyo said: Nothing there seems to indicate coral. Corallites must have septa and are not visible. Coenosteum must made by isolated trabeculae, costae, disepiments, costal pali or a combination of this elements and it is not. To me that is not a coral. Thank you. I have never found a piece of coral in the Eocene Nanjemoy Formation and I have made 200 trips to different sites in Virginia with that formation. I didn't really think it was coral but I wanted to be sure. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfossilhunter Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 This is a cross section of a rat fish plate 5 TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRatKing Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, njfossilhunter said: This is a cross section of a rat fish plate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 27 minutes ago, njfossilhunter said: Need cross section view if possible 2 hours ago, abyssunder said: Is that a straight cut through the specimen? I took the below pictures trying to show the edge/cross section. These new pictures were taken at night (different light) and with the specimen in white clay. The colors and the specimen itself look totally different. In these pictures the specimen looks like a piece of a fruit/seed. The specimen is noticeably convex on one side and concave on the back surface. We do find lots of lignitized fruit/seeds in the formation but they usually have a smooth or bumpy surface. When I hold the specimen in my hand and look at it, it does not look like a lignitized fruit/seed or a modern nut contaminant. 4 hours ago, LabRatKing said: I love a challenge. These photos are kicking my gluteus.. So: Do you have a black light? It will help us photo desk jockeys. Are you willing/able to do streak and acid tests? I just ordered some intralibrary stuff that might help with this differential. Here are two black-light pictures of the same surface of the specimen. Marco Sr. 2 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRatKing Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jersey Devil Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 I don’t think that’s ratfish. Could it be a sponge for that formation? It vaguely reminds me of some Cliona I’ve seen. 1 “You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Do you find any calcitic fossils in the sediment you pick through or is it all leached out? If there is no calcitic preservation I would think ratfish would be a good possibility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 19 minutes ago, Al Dente said: Do you find any calcitic fossils in the sediment you pick through or is it all leached out? If there is no calcitic preservation I would think ratfish would be a good possibility. Eric All of the calcitic shells have been leached out. I only find occasional pyrite casts of shells. When I sent matrix samples from this area to the USGS to positively date the formation, all of the calcitic nanofossils were leached out. I find hundreds of bony fish vertebrae each trip but have not found a single otolith. I have not found a single piece of coral. So I do believe that the calcitic fossils have leached out and there isn't any calcitic preservation of fossils in the formation matrix that I have been collecting. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 7 hours ago, The Jersey Devil said: I don’t think that’s ratfish. Could it be a sponge for that formation? It vaguely reminds me of some Cliona I’ve seen. I have not found any sponges in the formation before. I will look into that. I have found around one hundred nice specimens and several hundred fragments of Chimaera tooth plates in the Paleocene Aquia Formation of Maryland. Below are two of the Chimaera tooth plate fragments (23mm X 11mm and 16mm X 9mm) for comparison to my specimen: Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Are we certain that this isn't an odd preservation of Palmoxylon ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Rockwood said: Are we certain that this isn't an odd preservation of Palmoxylon ? That is interesting. When the plant researcher from the Smithsonian finally comes to my house (He has been coming out the next week or so for three months now) to pick up the fruit/seed and lignitized wood specimens that I collected from the Nanjemoy Formation in Virginia, I'll show the specimen to him. There is lots of lignitized wood in the formation but I haven't ever found petrified wood in the formation. The lignitized wood is always jet black or dark brown, soft, and crumbles apart if it gets too dry. This specimen is not lignitized. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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