Dakotaraptor claw?

[heZZ]

Dakotaraptor foot claw. What can you say about this? 3 3/4" (92 mm) long.  Hell Creek Formation, Jordan, Montana, USA

 

 

[TyBoy]

Since @Troodon is unavailable hopfully @hxmendoza might see it.

[akazaran]

Very nice claw but  I am far from being an expert. What are the possibles ID for a  claw of this size from Hell Creek?

[akazaran]

Here is a link to pics of  dakotaraptor foot claws: I hope it can help...

http://www.pbmnh.org/museum-store/product/dakotaraptor-killing-claw/

 

 

[akazaran]

Not much interest form this claw aparently

[jpc]

it is a nice looking claw but I wonder if the base is not reconstructed.  Diffèrent color and texture.  

[JoeS]

yeah, the seller states the proximal end was restored from where the articulation begins and the very tip of the claw too.
It's a nice claw indeed, but I would like to see some clear before/after pictures to understand the extend of restoration present before spending that kind of money =)
Without this information it is also hard to discern if it is a foot or hand claw.

About the ID, shape and size do suggest Dakotaraptor, but some more experienced ppl should take a look.

here an image of the only described pedal ungual II of Dakotaraptor:

[Fossildude19]

2 hours ago, akazaran said:

Not much interest form this claw aparently

It is a Holiday weekend/week, ... some patience may be required.  

[akazaran]

"It is a nice looking claw but I wonder if the base is not reconstructed. "

 

Wow. You have a very good eye!

[jpc]

8 minutes ago, akazaran said:

"It is a nice looking claw but I wonder if the base is not reconstructed. "

 

Wow. You have a very good eye!

I have been looking at fossils for 35 years.   : )

[hxmendoza]

It’s an Anzu hand claw middle section of the claw tip. Definitely not Dakotaraptor sickle claw. 
 

The articulating end is poorly restored and the very tip is restored too. 
 

Saw this in the auction site and immediately recognized it for what it really is. 
 

[akazaran]

40 minutes ago, hxmendoza said:

It’s an Anzu hand claw middle section of the claw tip. Definitely not Dakotaraptor sickle claw. 
 

The articulating end is poorly restored and the very tip is restored too. 
 

Saw this in the auction site and immediately recognized it for what it really is. 
 

thanks for your input.

For educational purpose would you mind to elaborate the criteria that identify Anzu?

[hxmendoza]

23 minutes ago, akazaran said:

thanks for your input.

For educational purpose would you mind to elaborate the criteria that identify Anzu?

The hand claws are variable. But they’re bladed and the cross section through the tips are subequal in regards to the cross sectional width of the claw section dorsal to the lateral grooves and ventral to those grooves. The ventral edge is also fairly rounded and not trenchant as seen in Dromaeosaur sickle claws. Dromaeosaur hand claws are also more trenchant but not as much as the sickle claws. 

Except for the visual bladedness of the Anzu hand claws, they lack the more trenchant (“sharp bladed”) edge seen in Dromy sickle claws. Best I can do with the time I have. Many years experience with these various types of claws helps me also.

[akazaran]

1 minute ago, hxmendoza said:

The hand claws are variable. But they’re bladed and the cross section through the tips are subequal in regards to the cross section of the claw section dorsal to the lateral grooves and ventral to those grooves. The ventral edge is also fairly rounded and not trenchant as seen in Dromaeosaur sickle claws. Dromaeosaur hand claws are also more trenchant but not as much as the sickle claws. 

Except for the visual blades was of the Anzu hand claws, they lack the more trenchant (“sharp bladed”) edge seen in Dromy sickle claws. Best I can do with the time I have. Many years experience with these various types of claws helps me also.

Thank for the input!

[hxmendoza]

I corrected my comment above to say cross sectional width. As well as another typo.

[akazaran]

Isnt it weird that on this claw the central groove is closer to the dorsal (superior) ) edge of the claw thant to the ventral (inferior) edge? On all the Anzu hand claws that I have seen the central groove was closer to the ventral (inferior) edge of the claw. While on the dakotaraptor sickle claw the central groove is closer to the dorsal edge of the claw (like on this claw). As you said the proximal part of the claw and the tip have been  reconstructed (and poorly reconstructed for the base) but can we really rule out that this claw is the anterior part of a sickle claw of a dakotaraptor?

[hxmendoza]

2 hours ago, akazaran said:

Isnt it weird that on this claw the central groove is closer to the dorsal (superior) ) edge of the claw thant to the ventral (inferior) edge? On all the Anzu hand claws that I have seen the central groove was closer to the ventral (inferior) edge of the claw. While on the dakotaraptor sickle claw the central groove is closer to the dorsal edge of the claw (like on this claw). As you said the proximal part of the claw and the tip have been  reconstructed (and poorly reconstructed for the base) but can we really rule out that this claw is the anterior part of a sickle claw of a dakotaraptor?

It is not a Dakotaraptor sickle claw. I’ve seen a few Anzu hand claws that have this same, or similar groove placement. Where grooves are equally placed on both sides but more dorsally. Not typical, but nonetheless, they occur. Also, the section of remaining claw is not dead center but rather more towards the distal end. 

On Dromy sickles the lateral groove is higher than the medial groove.  And on Dromy sickles the moment the lateral groove diverges away from the other to become more dorsal can be variable too. Sometimes it diverges more dorsally much further away from the proximal end, much later than expected. You can see this on the right lateral view of the actual Dakotaraptor holotype sickle. The lateral groove ends up higher than the medial one (the right lateral view photo), though further away from the proximal end than expected. But don’t immediately assume that that is an apomorphy (distinct trait) for Dakotaraptor. I’ve seen this late divergence on Utahraptor sickles and Saurornitholestine sickles to one degree or another. Even in Deinonychus sickles. The Harvard Deinonychus specimen has a right foot sickle that has a much more shallower lateral groove than the lateral groove seen on the left foot of the holotype Yale specimen.  Again, all due to variability. 
 

Here are at least two examples of the Anzu grooves being placed more dorsally. One more noticeable than the other: