Fossil ID request Tampa Bay Fossil Coral

[Gregcohen]

This 23-34 Million year old Fossil coral  from Tampa Bay might be a Desmophyllum, but seems to either be another type or possibly a Desmophyllum going through a reproductive split.  

 

Could anyone confirm the ID and if it's going thought a reproductive split.

 

It's a small coralite around 1 cm.

[Planko]

No idea but very cool!

[Tidgy's Dad]

I'm not sure that is Desmophyllum, but hopefully one of our coral people can confirm, but, yes, that's asexual budding by the look of it. 

[oyo]

First : information about Desmophyllum.

http://corallosphere.org/taxon/461.html  Brief description, illustrations and bibliographic information

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Morphological-variability-of-Desmophyllum-dianthus-Calice-and-corallum-of-specimens-from_fig3_283579319 Link to an article on the type species Desmophyllum dianthus (Esper, 1794).

I recommend you also check Cairns 1979, 1982 and 1994 as well as Zybrowius 1980 for more information on the genus and detailed descriptions.

 

Second: Detailed photos should be available to observe the superficial septal morphology.

Desmophyllum presents relatively smooth septa. In the absence of these better images, it seems to me that in your specimen I observe too many septal granules for the species you propose. Although I have to say that, honestly, it is more an intuition than a certainty.

 

Third: Are you sure that this specimen comes from strata belonging to the Oligocene (34-23 million years) ????

I am not familiar with the preservation of materials in your area, but this specimen looks much more recent. Perhaps members of the area can help at this point.

[Gregcohen]

I use muriatic acid to clean limestone from agate coral stick conglomerates.  I find shells and sometimes strange items like this inside the limestone chunks.

 

Past agate finds in similiar limestone chunks from the area I was told by the Florida Natural History Museums expert were 23-34 million.  But those were agate based pieces like others in the same material this came from.

 

This is one of the stranger ones I found.  Desmophyllum looks to be a solitary coral.  This has the one coming off the side.  It also almost seems to have one in the center of the main coralite.  So unless it's in a reproductive cycle splitting them off, I could not find anything similiar so reaching out to see what others think it maybe.

[Gregcohen]

The better paper from the area is:

NEW AND LITTLE-KNOWN CORALS FROM THE TAMPA FORMATION OF FLORIDA By Norman E. Weisbord Published by the FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES DIVISION OF INTERIOR RESOURCES BUREAU OF GEOLOGY in cooperation with the DEPARTMENT OF GEOLOGY FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY Tallahassee, Florida 1973

 

It has Syzygophyllia and Desmophyllum as the two slightly similiar.  But once again major differences that I could only guess either make it something else, or in a reproductive process.

[Gregcohen]

Just as examples these two are what I found in the past (beginning of 2020)  The one I started the thread on I found last week.

 

They are more normal types.  Solitary and vase shaped.

[oyo]

1 hour ago, Gregcohen said:

I use muriatic acid to clean limestone from agate coral stick conglomerates.  I find shells and sometimes strange items like this inside the limestone chunks.

 

Past agate finds in similiar limestone chunks from the area I was told by the Florida Natural History Museums expert were 23-34 million.  But those were agate based pieces like others in the same material this came from.

 

Ok, Oligocene pues.

1 hour ago, Gregcohen said:

Just as examples these two are what I found in the past (beginning of 2020)  The one I started the thread on I found last week.

 

They are more normal types.  Solitary and vase shaped.

These two specimens do look like Desmophyllum to me.

[MikeR]

Your first specimen might be what Weisbord called Incertae sedis b.  interestingly the text on plate 24 is missing in my PDF and looks to be a printing issue as the page numbers don't skip so I had to go back in the text to find out what he called it.  I agree with Desmophyllum willcoxi Gane, 1895.

 

Mike

[Gregcohen]

I did find a book https://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00000252/00001/117j  that on page 110 has the descriptions and the same picture 111 the other PDF version has.  It definately could be that, just not a very good examples in that book for a number of corals.  My silicified ones protected by limestone have much more detail then theirs show. This coral maybe a common opal and/or chert mix.  It survived a muriatic bath to remove the limestone.

 

Thanks for the help.

[Sjfriend]

On 12/25/2020 at 4:47 AM, Gregcohen said:

Just as examples these two are what I found in the past (beginning of 2020)  The one I started the thread on I found last week.

 

They are more normal types.  Solitary and vase shaped.

Beautiful! Love what acid baths bring out.