Peace River Oddity

[Shellseeker]

I went hunting today in my favorite place -- the Peace River.  The day was gorgeous,  Sunshine, 70s and I had a 5 mm wetsuit. The river is down (quickly 2-3 feet). Someone upstream closed the locks of a lake or something similar this last week.

I was in an area that I had not hunted in years, but I recalled some of the landscape and tried a few of my old spots. Pretty good , but not great. Some nice Hemis, but small shark teeth were few. Found a horse ear bone, a small armadillo scute, a very small canine, but they came slowly, so I move trying lots of different locations.  The last one gave me some curious finds and this was the most unusual. I kept on turning it over and over, wondering what it was.... rock, crystal?,  or some sort of calcification like the Calcite clams from Rucks Pit. What happened to this odd fossil?  So the 1st 4 photos kept me confused,  but an old friend was exposed on photo #5. 

 

At 2.25 inches, the pattern on the shiny part is definitive.  Enjoy.

 

 

[Brett Breakin' Rocks]

@Shellseeker that is a real treat. It definitely looks like it has some serious pathology ?  

 

Cheers,

Brett

[hemipristis]

[Al Dente]

The last photo looks like the upper portion of a barnacle steinkern. The circular object on the steinkern looks like a serpulid worm shell that was attached on the inside of the barnacle before the barnacle shell was leached away.

 

 

[NSRhunter]

Really reminds me of a tooth of some kind, almost looks like it has enamel. But of what though? Initial shape maybe whale but I'm just guessing

[Thecosmilia Trichitoma]

Maybe a worn cetacean tooth with most of the enamel missing. It also has a mixture of possible pathologies and barnacle/other invertebrate attachments.

[Shellseeker]

6 hours ago, NSRhunter said:

Really reminds me of a tooth of some kind, almost looks like it has enamel. But of what though? Initial shape maybe whale but I'm just guessing

 

6 hours ago, Thecosmilia Trichitoma said:

Maybe a worn cetacean tooth with most of the enamel missing. It also has a mixture of possible pathologies and barnacle/other invertebrate attachments.

 

Thanks for your comments. I thought whale initially.

 

I am a fossil whale tooth enthusiast, and collect many whale teeth from Bone Valley and the Peace River. I have whale teeth that have been calcified ... so layered and calcified had me thinking my favorite fossil.  I showed it to my hunting friend and he said 'whale"

 

When I saw the tell tale horizontal lines, it seemed obvious Whale...

But after seeing @Al Dente 's identification, and close examination of the "tip",  I lean 9-1 in favor of Barnacle.

I am interested in the word Steinkern definition is - a fossil consisting of a stony mass that entered a hollow natural object (such as a bivalve shell) in the form of mud or sediment, was consolidated, and remained as a cast after dissolution of the mold.

 

I am pretty sure that the word does not describe the process to create the whale tooth just added in this post.

 

What about this Barnacle. Is it a Steinkern or is it a Calcite replacement? Definitely, comments appreciated.

[minnbuckeye]

In the last picture, isn't that part of the actual "fossil"  along the upper edge? If so, steinkern is unlikely, since the fossil must dissolve away.  

 

 Mike

[Shellseeker]

4 hours ago, minnbuckeye said:

In the last picture, isn't that part of the actual "fossil"  along the upper edge? If so, steinkern is unlikely, since the fossil must dissolve away.  

 

 Mike

Mike,

Good to her from you!!!   I think so, but I am not sure... There is a lot of shell remaining in this fossil:  That thought made me think of another path. 

 

There are many different types of barnacles we find in Florida,  and I found one of them. http://skywalker.cochise.edu/wellerr/fossil/barnacle/fla3.htm. Need help on exact ID on this Barnacle species. @MikeR Whether this is Steinkern or a calcification of the original shell or whatever, It is hard to believe that this find is unique. @digit Ken, you have not commented. What is your take ?

 

 

[Pagurus]

It reminds me of the living "goose-neck" barnacles I find on the coast here in New England. I can't remember the name at the moment, though I should. Let's see what google reveals.

[Al Dente]

3 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

There are many different types of barnacles we find in Florida,  and I found one of them. http://skywalker.cochise.edu/wellerr/fossil/barnacle/fla3.htm. Need help on exact ID on this Barnacle species. @MikeR Whether this is Steinkern or a calcification of the original shell or whatever, It is hard to believe that this find is unique. @digit Ken, you have not commented. What is your take ?

This is a steinkern of a Balanus or similar barnacle. These barnacles have a ridge on the inside that creates this two layer look on the steinkern. Here’s a Balanus that I filled with silicon and then dissolved the shell with vinegar.

 

 

[digit]

The problem with this being a (Balanus) barnacle steinkern is that it is way too long (IMHO). Barnacles of this type tend to be rather short and stocky as shown in the image directly above. Gooseneck Barnacles are a whole different kind of thing from this with a flexible (goose-neck) peduncle below the main body (capitulum) of the barnacle. The peduncle is fleshy and flexible and I don't see it standing a chance of being preserved as a fossil.

 

The ridges on the end you are focusing on certainly do resemble the texture of the upper section of the Balanus steinkerns but they could also be conchoidal fractures as this particular fossil is highly silicified.  I don't know of any elongated acorn type barnacles and so I'd probably (for the moment) fall into the cetacean tooth camp. You might drop Roger Portell these images and see if he is aware of any elongate barnacles in Florida's invertebrate fossil record. If he doesn't recognize it then I'd say the case is stronger for oddly preserved cetacean tooth. Just my $0.02 which won't get you a cup of coffee but might purchase the cup.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Shellseeker]

3 hours ago, Al Dente said:

This is a steinkern of a Balanus or similar barnacle. These barnacles have a ridge on the inside that creates this two layer look on the steinkern. Here’s a Balanus that I filled with silicon and then dissolved the shell with vinegar.

I am impressed!  You are a man of facts and actions.... Basically, I might find a silica based internal mold of any shell like material from the Peace River. The most common internal molds that I find are easily identifiable as a mudrock or sand_rock material from bivalves,  usually missing all the original shell materials. Ark shells, coquina, cockles, etc.

Thanks for doing the experiment... it clarifies.

[Pagurus]

I do see a superficial resemblance to the modern gooseneck barnacle, "Lepas anatifera," but then again I also see lobsters in the clouds. I am also impressed by Al Dente's silicon steinkern!  I tend to agree with Ken, though, that your find seems too elongated for the common Balanus barnacles I'm familiar with. I don't know what's down there in Florida though. I don't think your fossil is actually a gooseneck barnacle, but here are some I found on a Maine beach a couple of years ago, shortly after a storm washed them in.

 

 

[Shellseeker]

3 hours ago, Pagurus said:

I tend to agree with Ken, though, that your find seems too elongated for the common Balanus barnacles I'm familiar with.

I have been looking around on the internet for modern barnacles . Here is one  with the "soft" parts Ken references.

 

and fossil ones I have found.  Think this one may be Steinkern.

Both the length (2.25 inches) and shape of this one seems odd, plus the fact that it is not connected to other Barnacles

[Al Dente]

16 hours ago, digit said:

The problem with this being a (Balanus) barnacle steinkern is that it is way too long (IMHO). Barnacles of this type tend to be rather short and stocky as shown in the image directly above.

When they grow in clusters, they become elongated and have pointy bases. Here's a Chesapecten from a Google search showing a barnacle that is crowded with a narrow base (arrow). In the lower left you can see broken barnacles with pointed bases. You found a steinkern with an elongated base in this post- http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/44045-odd-conical-fossils-teeth/&tab=comments#comment-478347. The one on the left looks elongated and is a similar size to Jack's fossil.

 

 

[digit]

Ah, very cool! I do love learning something new first thing in the morning.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

[Shellseeker]

51 minutes ago, digit said:

Ah, very cool! I do love learning something new first thing in the morning.

Cheers.-Ken

With kudos to @Al Dente, this is becoming already a really interesting thread.

There are things I still want to know:  looking for @MikeR 's input

1) What is the common and scientific name of the barnacle that created this fossil?

https://www.jstor.org/stable/24315110?seq=1

2) Why the shape and length.  Normally barnacles of this type have a flat ends where they "attached".  Very plausible that some are "free_standing", held aloft by sticking to their buddies, but then how did they get rid of their buddies pre_fossilization.

3) What is the fossilization process?  Are these steinkerns or original shell transformed into silicates, calcified, agatized, etc, much like the whale tooth above is fossilized.

This fossil was found in the Peace River with many other broken examples of sanddollars, shells, etc with similar fossilization, but mostly pieces. Here is a shell from 2 years back at a close location to where I found this barnacle.

4) Do these examples tell me anything about the age of the sediments where I find them.?

I am a very curious person.  Questions, questions, questions...

 

[Pagurus]

4 hours ago, Al Dente said:

When they grow in clusters, they become elongated and have pointy bases

Good point!   I've noticed this often, and completely forgot about this variation. Balanus ("acorn") barnacles can indeed be elongated. Thanks for pointing that out.

[digit]

This sounds like a good example to send to Roger Portell and get his input.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[MikeR]

Hi Jack

 

An exact identification of barnacles are difficult with well preserved species and there are not enough identifiable features on yours to even tell genera much less if it is an actual barnacle.  Obviously it originated in a marine or brackish environment so I would think from the Peace River, it would be Upper Miocene.  In his paper on Chesapecten and Carolinapecten of South Florida, Waller looked at co-occurring species to help establish his pecten biozones and the Miocene-Pliocene boundary.  He identified Chesaconcavus myosulcatus originally described from the Upper Miocene Eastover Formation of Virginia, in the Florida Upper Miocene as well.  Examples of the species below from the Eastover, Surry County, Virginia on the left and from the Peace River/Bayshore Formation, Sarasota County, Florida on the right.  In addition the FLMNH database lists two species of Balanidae from the Florida Miocene of which neither are from the Peace River.  

 

Mike

 

  

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, MikeR said:

Hi Jack

An exact identification of barnacles are difficult with well preserved species and there are not enough identifiable features on yours to even tell genera much less if it is an actual barnacle.  Obviously it originated in a marine or brackish environment so I would think from the Peace River, it would be Upper Miocene.  In his paper on Chesapecten and Carolinapecten of South Florida, Waller looked at co-occurring species to help establish his pecten biozones and the Miocene-Pliocene boundary.  He identified Chesaconcavus myosulcatus originally described from the Upper Miocene Eastover Formation of Virginia, in the Florida Upper Miocene as well.  Examples of the species below from the Eastover, Surry County, Virginia on the left and from the Peace River/Bayshore Formation, Sarasota County, Florida on the right.  In addition the FLMNH database lists two additional species balanidae from the Florida Miocene of which neither are from the Peace River.   Mike

 

Thanks Mike,

Setting my expectations is good, and at least I have a candidate for Upper Miocene Barnacle in SW Florida.

 

3 hours ago, digit said:

This sounds like a good example to send to Roger Portell and get his input.

Cheers. -Ken

Yes, I wanted a sense of what was likely before I reached out.  Will post whatever I get back.   Jack

 

[Shellseeker]

I did receive a response from Roger Portell, University of Florida,  Invertebrate Collections Manager

 

Quote

 

Hi Jack,

Happy New Year!

Yes, it does have a barnacle-like appearance.  Possibly due to preservation (silicification), it seems very unusual.  With a closer exam with magnification (microscope) I may be able to solve this mystery.  Cool find!  No, I haven’t seen a specimen similar to this before and I have looked at many Peace River barnacles. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers, Roger

 

 

The Barnacle goes into tomorrow's mail to Roger. I love finding fossils that are rare enough to donate.

[digit]

That'll make Roger's day when he opens that box. As any highly curious person, he loves novelties and mysteries.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Bone Daddy]

Hi Jack,

 

Interesting find. My first thought would have been a banged-up tooth of some sort, but my first thought is often wrong.

 

I'm glad to see hunting season begin in earnest and your post got my excitement up a bit. Had I not experienced some mechanical issues with my truck, I would have been out there already. Truck is fixed now and I am shooting for early next week to make my first trip of the season.

 

To the Peace River Rats - sorry I have been silent for a while. I've been distracted and busy. Now that nightmare 2020 is over, it's time to get back in the fossil saddle. 

 

So, what is this thing? Tooth or barnacle?