South Carolina Small Shark Teeth IDs

[Top Trilo]

I am back from my trip/vacation/holiday/whatever-you-call-it. I went to Hilton Head Island South Carolina USA and was unsure how the shark tooth hunting was gonna go. Turned out much more successful then I thought although the largest tooth is only 12mm about half an inch. It’s a lot harder to ID these than I thought. I tried grouping them but am pretty sure I made some mistakes. I could use some help to figure these out. And I know many are too worn to ID. Couldn’t find a complete ruler so I just cut out a 1 cm by 1 inch piece of paper for scale. Let me know if more pictures are needed or if you need any other information. Here are all the finds.

group 1 is missing the root but seem wider than the others.

 

group 2, most don’t lay flat since they have a very large root.

 

Group 3 is like group 2 only these all have serrations. 

Group 4 are thin with small roots although I can’t tell if the root is just very worn.

 

The tooth in number 5 I would put with group two only it looks like it grew around a piece of something while the shark was alive and was wondering if this is true or not

 

group 6 has a thicker blade and smaller root. 

 

7 is angled, short, and serrated.

 

8 is a fish vertebra and was wondering if you can tell anything else from it.

 

9 are all slanted this one I’m sure I messed something up I can’t tell which ones are angled because of the species or because of mouth location.

 

And group ten I believe are too worn to identify but this forum has lots of very knowledgeable people so I put them in, in case any can be identified.

Thanks for any help.

 

Edit: I know the teeth can turn black fairly quick but how quick is it? The teeth I found vary in amount of blackness which I assume to mean lighter ones are more recent but to turn fully black how long does it take? Thousands of years? hundreds of years? Decades? Less?

Edited June 20, 2021 by Top Trilo

[Coco]

Looks like Miocene, doesn't it ?

 

9 : the big one is a Galeocerdo, and the others aren't that. Look at the Galeocerdo the longest part of the crown is bulging while on the others it is the opposite. Other species.

 

EDIT : I forgot to congratulate you on your rule! Simple and effective (if it appears whole on your photos, because you don’t see the whole thumb).

 

 

Coco

Edited June 21, 2021 by Coco

[jikohr]

3 hours ago, Coco said:

Looks like Miocene, doesn't it ?

 

9 : the big one is a Galeocerdo, and the others aren't that. Look at the Galeocerdo the longest part of the crown is bulging while on the others it is the opposite. Other species.

 

EDIT : I forgot to congratulate you on your rule! Simple and effective (if it appears whole on your photos, because you don’t see the whole thumb).

 

 

Coco

The others in 9 are from the sharp nose shark genus Rhizoprionodon

1 genus Carcharhinus, don't even bother trying to differentiate species in that genus without perfect teeth 

2 large T shaped ones are lemon shark except for the one with the slightly u shaped root, that's from the lower jaw of a bull shark little one in the upper right is sharp nose again. The little one furthest down is Physogaleus the others look like Copper shark 

3 the two big ones are lemon, the others are Carcharhinus

4 worn lemons, make lemonade

5 little Carcharhinus (Copper?) with a rock stuck to it

6 worn upper Carcharhinus 

7 upper Carcharhinus, most likely Black tip shark

[Top Trilo]

Thank you for your help Coco and thanks @jikohr. 

For number 3 I do not think they are lemon, because of small serrations after more research I'm leaning towards Carcharhinus limbatus

For number 5 the rock is not stuck to it it appears as if the root has grown around it and I will try to take a better picture but its only a few mm long.

For number 7 the serrations look rather large for Carcharhinus and much shorter but I have no better idea. 

For the 2nd one I tried finding the ones you mentioned but am struggling a bit. If you don't mind could you specify, I numbered them in this post to make it easier.

And @Coco for the Galeocerdo do you know if it is G. cuvier or an extinct species?

 

Please don't think I'm coming back with questions because I'm not satisfied with the answers you've given, I really appreciate you taking the time to ID these teeth. Thanks to both.

[Coco]

Quel est l'âge de ces dents ?

 

The Galeocerdo aduncus is known in the miocene faluns of France but I do not know if it exists in the USA.

 

Coco

Edited June 21, 2021 by Coco

[Top Trilo]

11 minutes ago, Coco said:

Quel est l'âge de ces dents ?

I do not know the age of the teeth. I have no idea where I'd start to find the age since I am not sure where the ocean got the teeth before dropping them in the sand. 

[Coco]

Lets see the experts !

 

Coco

[Top Trilo]

Here are two pictures I hope will show number 5 a bit better. And would it be considered a pathology?

[jikohr]

3 hours ago, Top Trilo said:

Thank you for your help Coco and thanks @jikohr. 

For number 3 I do not think they are lemon, because of small serrations after more research I'm leaning towards Carcharhinus limbatus

For number 5 the rock is not stuck to it it appears as if the root has grown around it and I will try to take a better picture but its only a few mm long.

For number 7 the serrations look rather large for Carcharhinus and much shorter but I have no better idea. 

For the 2nd one I tried finding the ones you mentioned but am struggling a bit. If you don't mind could you specify, I numbered them in this post to make it easier.

And @Coco for the Galeocerdo do you know if it is G. cuvier or an extinct species?

 

Please don't think I'm coming back with questions because I'm not satisfied with the answers you've given, I really appreciate you taking the time to ID these teeth. Thanks to both.

Not a problem. Also these are all Miocene. Florida and the Carolinas have a TON of Miocene shark teeth wash up on their beaches.

In the new picture:

1 Bull Shark lower

5 Sharp nose

12 Physogaleus

9 Lemon

11 worn Lemon or lower Carcharhinus

2 Spinner (I think, I'm a little less sure on this one)

3,6,7,8 Copper

4 and 10 are covered up a bit so I can't tell but most likely Carcharhinus

Here's the thing about Carcharhinus, there are a lot of species and differentiating them is really tricky. Bull, Dusky, Copper, Blacktip, Blacktip Reef, Spinner, Silky, Bronze Whaler, and Sandbar are all genus Carcharhinus and lived in that are during the Miocene and continue to live there today (Those are just the ones off the top of my head!). Also all those species are really prolific in that area (sometimes a little too prolific just ask New Smyrna!) So if you find an angled triangular shark tooth that not too big (1+ inch) that genus is a pretty safe bet.

Also lemons sometimes have small serrations at the base of the enamel.

 

[bthemoose]

3 hours ago, Coco said:

Quel est l'âge de ces dents ?

 

The Galeocerdo aduncus is known in the miocene faluns of France but I do not know if it exists in the USA.

 

Coco

Galeocerdo aduncus is also found in the Miocene of Maryland, and I would guess further down the U.S. East Coast as well though I haven’t personally collected or acquired any from there.

[jikohr]

1 hour ago, bthemoose said:

Galeocerdo aduncus is also found in the Miocene of Maryland, and I would guess further down the U.S. East Coast as well though I haven’t personally collected or acquired any from there.

I've found several aduncus on trips to Florida and see them in other people's collections from the Carolinas. They're there alright.

[Top Trilo]

2 hours ago, jikohr said:

Also lemons sometimes have small serrations at the base of the enamel.

Can they nearly the whole way down? These images are of the two largest in group 3.

[bthemoose]

On 6/21/2021 at 6:58 PM, Top Trilo said:

Can they nearly the whole way down? These images are of the two largest in group 3.

 

Those are both Carcharhinus sp. teeth. Lemons can have serrated shoulders (see example below) but the serrations don’t continue up the cusp.

 

[Top Trilo]

Thanks again to everyone that replied but I still have a couple questions.

1. @jikohr said he wasn’t certain if number 2 in group 2 was spinner and it would be nice to get confirmation for spinner or some other species.

2. For number 7 it was ID’d as Carcharhinus likely blacktip. The blacktip teeth I’ve seen are much more narrow but I could definitely be wrong and it would be nice to be sure what it is before labeling.

3. Can you tell anything about the vertebra other than fish? Based on the size it looks like it was no larger than a foot. Can you tell what part of the fish the vertebra is or even what type of fish?

4. The smallest complete one, number 5 in the first pics has something attached to it, and the root grew over it. At first I thought it’s a rock but how would a shark get a rock stuck in its tooth? Could it be a tiny chunk of bone stuck in its tooth? I’m sure it’s just speculation and it doesn’t really matter what it is but since the tooth grew differently, (around the rock/bone) would it be a pathological shark tooth? Here’s some more photos of the four fossils in question.

 

1.

 

2.

 

3.

 

4.

 

Again thanks for your help 

[Al Dente]

1 minute ago, Top Trilo said:

4. The smallest complete one, number 5 in the first pics has something attached to it, and the root grew over it. At first I thought it’s a rock but how would a shark get a rock stuck in its tooth? Could it be a tiny chunk of bone stuck in its tooth? I’m sure it’s just speculation and it doesn’t really matter what it is but since the tooth grew differently, (around the rock/bone) would it be a pathological shark tooth? Here’s some more photos of the four fossils in question.

 

 

I'm guessing this is a small phosphatic clast that has formed on the tooth after the tooth was buried in sediment. 

[Top Trilo]

1 hour ago, Al Dente said:

 

I'm guessing this is a small phosphatic clast that has formed on the tooth after the tooth was buried in sediment. 

Thank you Al dente I hadn't thought of that previously but then how would the root grow around it if it was post-death?

[Al Dente]

40 minutes ago, Top Trilo said:

Thank you Al dente I hadn't thought of that previously but then how would the root grow around it if it was post-death?

Why do you think the root grew around the clast instead of the clast forming around the root?

[Top Trilo]

51 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

Why do you think the root grew around the clast instead of the clast forming around the root?

Its hard to see in the photos but above the clast, the root has a part that goes over it. The red part is what I'm talking about

[Al Dente]

From your photo it looks to me like the red circled area is part of the clast. The roots of shark teeth form within the cartilage of the jaw. For this tooth to have grown around the small pebble, the pebble would have to have been inside the shark cartilage when the tooth was forming.

 

 

[Top Trilo]

6 hours ago, Al Dente said:

From your photo it looks to me like the red circled area is part of the clast. The roots of shark teeth form within the cartilage of the jaw. For this tooth to have grown around the small pebble, the pebble would have to have been inside the shark cartilage when the tooth was forming.

I had another look at the tooth and can assure you the red part is part of the root. I can see how the upper left part is connected to the root. Not only that but it is the same color and texture as the root opposed to the bumpy black clast. I have no idea how it would have formed inside cartilage, that was the flaw in my idea. I'm sorry the pictures aren't the best but its the best I can do. Could the clast possibly be something that came from the shark while the tooth was growing instead of from an outside source?

[Top Trilo]

I guess it will remain a mystery, does anyone know answers to the other questions?

On 6/25/2021 at 12:36 PM, Top Trilo said:

1. @jikohr said he wasn’t certain if number 2 in group 2 was spinner and it would be nice to get confirmation for spinner or some other species.

2. For number 7 it was ID’d as Carcharhinus likely blacktip. The blacktip teeth I’ve seen are much more narrow but I could definitely be wrong and it would be nice to be sure what it is before labeling.

3. Can you tell anything about the vertebra other than fish? Based on the size it looks like it was no larger than a foot. Can you tell what part of the fish the vertebra is or even what type of fish?

4. The smallest complete one, number 5 in the first pics has something attached to it, and the root grew over it. At first I thought it’s a rock but how would a shark get a rock stuck in its tooth? Could it be a tiny chunk of bone stuck in its tooth? I’m sure it’s just speculation and it doesn’t really matter what it is but since the tooth grew differently, (around the rock/bone) would it be a pathological shark tooth? Here’s some more photos of the four fossils in question.