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Partial Marine Mammal Tooth and Root. Help!


sixgill pete

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I need some help. From my new pit location. Eocene Castle Hayne Formation, Comfort Member. A partial Marine Mammal? tooth with root. Archeocete? Sirinean? PPinned? @Boesse @Al Dente @siteseer

 

20210912_172816.thumb.jpg.b251e02c2480a571b1bd81bbe3789cae.jpg

 

20210912_172835.thumb.jpg.a2a7d00f6a06c63d4285ec7dc4660844.jpg

 

20210912_172930.thumb.jpg.3697e06a0155f85b3bfb999b36eae5d8.jpg

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53 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

How big is it? I want to say archaeocete but I’ve never seen one with such bumpy enamel.

 

I meant to put in the measurement, but whoops! It is 2.06 inches long, 52.4 mm. 

 

The bumpy enamal is what made me wonder if it was something besides archeocete.

Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt
behind the trailer, my desert
Them red clay piles are heaven on earth
I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt

Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers

 

image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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It's hard to say but it could be even from a land mammal (a premolar of an odd artiodactyl?) though that seems less likely than an archaeocete tooth, but yeah, I haven't seen that kind of rugose enamel surface before in an Eocene whale.  I've seen it in late Oligocene whale teeth (Chandler Bridge Formation).

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This is a protocetid premolar! Nice find - these are extremely rare! It's probably a third or fourth premolar (like D here). Here's a figure from Uhen 2014 on protocetid teeth from SC and NJ:

image.thumb.png.28ea6f44db3604add52dad0b33c333e2.png

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9 hours ago, Boesse said:

This is a protocetid premolar! Nice find - these are extremely rare! It's probably a third or fourth premolar (like D here). Here's a figure from Uhen 2014 on protocetid teeth from SC and NJ:

image.thumb.png.28ea6f44db3604add52dad0b33c333e2.png

Help out a little here Bobby, if you would.

Protocetids and Archeocetes lived at the same time. What were the differences in them?

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Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt
behind the trailer, my desert
Them red clay piles are heaven on earth
I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt

Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers

 

image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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Great question! Protocetids ARE archaeocetes - they're the last group of archaeocetes with hindlimbs that were attached to the vertebral column and capable of supporting their weight on land. Our recently discovered/named whale Phiomicetus is such an example of a protocetid whale.

 

Basilosaurids are the last group of archaeocetes to evolve, probably evolving directly from the protocetids before giving rise to modern baleen whales and echolocating dolphins.

 

Phiomicetus - Wikipedia

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Great Photo,  Bobby.  Thanks for sharing

The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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3 hours ago, Boesse said:

Great question! Protocetids ARE archaeocetes - they're the last group of archaeocetes with hindlimbs that were attached to the vertebral column and capable of supporting their weight on land. Our recently discovered/named whale Phiomicetus is such an example of a protocetid whale.

 

Basilosaurids are the last group of archaeocetes to evolve, probably evolving directly from the protocetids before giving rise to modern baleen whales and echolocating dolphins.

 

Phiomicetus - Wikipedia

I thought i spotted your name on the paper. Must be nice to work on that material!

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22 hours ago, Boesse said:

Great question! Protocetids ARE archaeocetes - they're the last group of archaeocetes with hindlimbs that were attached to the vertebral column and capable of supporting their weight on land. Our recently discovered/named whale Phiomicetus is such an example of a protocetid whale.

 

Basilosaurids are the last group of archaeocetes to evolve, probably evolving directly from the protocetids before giving rise to modern baleen whales and echolocating dolphins.

 

Phiomicetus - Wikipedia

Thanks for the explanation Bobby. I am pretty excited by this find. 

 

 

Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt
behind the trailer, my desert
Them red clay piles are heaven on earth
I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt

Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers

 

image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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  • 4 months later...

@Boesse I have another partial tooth I found that resemble "G" in your figure from Uhen 2014. Here are some pics.

 

20220117_132210.thumb.jpg.9850a012b3316de5ed0c8f18b86d2a45.jpg  20220117_132253.thumb.jpg.2df6fa36bbc8c02ca07cd89de3dd5216.jpg  20220117_132332.thumb.jpg.afba6fe3ae37c33e001366801a979736.jpg  

 

20220117_132346.jpg.204aa306c4556d358dfc559a7fd4308e.jpg

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Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt
behind the trailer, my desert
Them red clay piles are heaven on earth
I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt

Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers

 

image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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I also have a partial earbone that I found a few weeks ago. I will try to get some good pictures of it.

Edited by sixgill pete

Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt
behind the trailer, my desert
Them red clay piles are heaven on earth
I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt

Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers

 

image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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9 hours ago, Plax said:

You nail down an age for this Eocene exposure?

I have not yet Don.

Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt
behind the trailer, my desert
Them red clay piles are heaven on earth
I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt

Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers

 

image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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