Ptychodus polygyrus

[Mikeyz]

Hi there everybody, it's been a while I was on the forum.

But I stumbled on 65+ associated teeth of Ptychodus polygyrus.

My question is, how can you tell the difference between an upper and a lower tooth of Ptychodus polygyrus?

[facehugger]

Whoa...

[fossilhunter21]

Sorry I can't be of any help, but those are some amazing finds! 

 

Congratulations!

 

-@fossilhunter21

Edited December 1, 2021 by fossilhunter21

[bthemoose]

Wow!

[digit]

Yeah, Wow!

 

Someone here who is familiar with these (or knows someone who is) should find this topic before long.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Huntonia]

Holy cow!! Gorgeous teeth! 

[LSCHNELLE]

Great fossils, Mikeyz:  You should consult with an expert about these associated Ptychodus polygyrus teeth. You must have some good resource  because you got the species correct. 

 

You must be either in the English Chalk, Alabama, or some equivalent Santonian to Campanian age strata somewhere else in the world. Shawn Hamm is a great resource.  He has studied Ptychodus species from around the world with a focus on North America - including polygyrus. I can give you his contact information by private message. 

 

Based on his 2020 NMMNH Bulletin 81, your largest teeth are likely from the lower jaw center file ("symphysial" teeth).  After that it gets tricky.  Get a digital or hard copy of that document and it should help to define which teeth are laterals and posteriors. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by LSCHNELLE

[Jared C]

holy cow, DREAM find. Congratulations!

[LSCHNELLE]

On 12/1/2021 at 2:10 PM, Mikeyz said:

Hi there everybody, it's been a while I was on the forum.

But I stumbled on 65+ associated teeth of Ptychodus polygyrus.

My question is, how can you tell the difference between an upper and a lower tooth of Ptychodus polygyrus?

Mikeyz:  If you don't mind me asking - Did you find these associated Ptychodus teeth in the Maastricht Formation near De Zilk? This is an extremely rare and amazing find!  I  think that museums and curators would consider such a find to be substantial. 

[Mikeyz]

Thanks every body.

Maybe Shawn Hamm can help me out.

Love Ptychodus teeth...

Found another one, a bit pale and maybe a decay of the enamel, but at a different location Arad Israel

[Mikeyz]

20 hours ago, LSCHNELLE said:

Great fossils, Mikeyz:  You should consult with an expert about these associated Ptychodus polygyrus teeth. You must have some good resource  because you got the species correct. 

 

You must be either in the English Chalk, Alabama, or some equivalent Santonian to Campanian age strata somewhere else in the world. Shawn Hamm is a great resource.  He has studied Ptychodus species from around the world with a focus on North America - including polygyrus. I can give you his contact information by private message. 

 

Based on his 2020 NMMNH Bulletin 81, your largest teeth are likely from the lower jaw center file ("symphysial" teeth).  After that it gets tricky.  Get a digital or hard copy of that document and it should help to define which teeth are laterals and posteriors. 

Hi LSCHNELLE,

Thanks for your reply.

And yes i shall consult him.

It's now the puzzle to get part of the teeth plate. (That why my Question upper of lower tooth.)

I stumbled upon 3 teeth laying within 40 cm of each other (see pic) and start to pick them up.

Went there for 2 more times to sieve them out of the layer.

 

I found them 10 miles of the dead sea Israeli side. Just by luck, well i was scanning my eyes on the ground near the Menuha formation. 

 

Still got some troubles how to edit quote etc etc. Got only a mobile with me

So forum members please forgive my stupidities when i do something wrong, or make some spelling mistakes with my English.

 

I'll keep you posted, on Yom Sabbath I'm going to Mitzpe Ramon, to do some nice finds.

Happy weekend everybody.

Regards

Mike Zijerveld

 

[digit]

10 hours ago, Mikeyz said:

Still got some troubles how to edit quote etc etc. Got only a mobile with me

So forum members please forgive my stupidities when i do something wrong, or make some spelling mistakes with my English.

This forum is (purposely) not like most social media sites--we are very welcoming and give great allowances for those who do not speak English as a first language. We're interested in fossils here (not drama) and you've got our full attention with these wonderful teeth.

 

I love in-situ images and it is spectacular when folks have the patience to remember to take these photos before they run over and pull fossils out of the ground. I especially enjoyed your in-situ photo above. I scanned the smaller image and could not spot the teeth at all. When I clicked on the image and blew it up to full size I could then see the distinctive texture of these teeth. Very cool!

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[siteseer]

Wow, that's an incredible find.  What are the sizes of the teeth in your hand?  They appear to be around 2 inches wide - quite large even for P. polygyrus which is one of the larger species.

[LSCHNELLE]

On 12/6/2021 at 2:17 AM, siteseer said:

Wow, that's an incredible find.  What are the sizes of the teeth in your hand?  They appear to be around 2 inches wide - quite large even for P. polygyrus which is one of the larger species.

Siteseer:  in the bulletin 81, Shawn Hamm reports that the lower Symphysial polygyrus teeth can be up to 7 cm in width.  Certainly, the teeth in this find are close to that if not just a little less.  Look up to the first pictures at the top of the thread to see the largest ones. 

[Mikeyz]

Hi, the teeth are (biggest ones ) are 5,5 cm.

But i have my doubts if its indeed the P.polygyrus.

I read the article of Shawn Hamm..(he did the determination)

But looking very carefull to the ridges and compared them with Ptychodus martini.

I have to say that my determination would be P.martini.

But i'm not the expert.

Will be continued.

Now i'm taking pictures, measure them, and try to get the dentition right.

Greetings,

Mike

 

 

 

[LSCHNELLE]

P. polygyrus in Europe/Asia is a catch-all for the North American versions of P. marginalis, P martini, and P polygyrus standing between the late Cenomanian and the early Campanion age. 

 

They're basically of similar morphology but just changed slightly over the years. Shawn divides them up in North America due primarily to the age differences with what he considers to be a significant change to the tooth crown and margins.

[Mikeyz]

Aha :-)

Thank you!

This i why i love this forum.

I checked my other 8 Ptychodus teeth in my collection, took me 9 years to collect those 8 teeth, and think there are some other species. Like Ptychodus mammilaris. I will post them later.

But i really felt in love with Ptychodus teeth.

 

greetings and thanks again!

Mike

[Mikeyz]

Aha :-)

Thank you!

This i why i love this forum.

I checked my other 8 Ptychodus teeth in my collection, took me 9 years to collect those 8 teeth, and think there are some other species. Like Ptychodus mammilaris. I will post them later.

But i really felt in love with Ptychodus teeth.

 

greetings and thanks again!

Mike

[Mikeyz]

Shawn just answered my email and gave me a very clear explanation, that it is Ptychodus polygyrus :-)

learning Everyday.

 

[siteseer]

10 hours ago, LSCHNELLE said:

Siteseer:  in the bulletin 81, Shawn Hamm reports that the lower Symphysial polygyrus teeth can be up to 7 cm in width.  Certainly, the teeth in this find are close to that if not just a little less.  Look up to the first pictures at the top of the thread to see the largest ones. 

 

Some huge ones have been found in Japan.  A friend once showed me a photo of a specimen in a private collection out there.

[Ancient Bones]

What a find ! Love those teeth !

[Sagebrush Steve]

On 12/9/2021 at 11:45 AM, Mikeyz said:

Aha :-)

Thank you!

This i why i love this forum.

I checked my other 8 Ptychodus teeth in my collection, took me 9 years to collect those 8 teeth, and think there are some other species. Like Ptychodus mammilaris. I will post them later.

But i really felt in love with Ptychodus teeth.

 

greetings and thanks again!

Mike

The scale on this ruler is confusing to me.  Across the top it says 1 to 5 mm.  But that doesn’t seem right.  Are each of the minor divisions 1 mm so the scale should be labeled 1 to 5 cm?

[Mikeyz]

Hi Steve,

 

You are absolutely right.

There should be printed 1-5 cm.

Wasn't aware of it.

Thank you, sharp eye ..eagle eye.

Got those scales for free from somebody.

Easy to use but very confusion if the scale is not mentioned right.

Greetings

Mike

 

[LSCHNELLE]

On 12/9/2021 at 1:45 PM, Mikeyz said:

Aha :-)

Thank you!

This i why i love this forum.

I checked my other 8 Ptychodus teeth in my collection, took me 9 years to collect those 8 teeth, and think there are some other species. Like Ptychodus mammilaris. I will post them later.

But i really felt in love with Ptychodus teeth.

 

greetings and thanks again!

Mike

Mikeyz:  First tooth is a little out of focus and hard to tell. It looks like an outer lateral file P. mammillaris (Turonian to early Coniacian) or P. latissimus (early Coniacian).  The second has been partially digested or worn to be too difficult to ID.  The third one looks more P. latissimus to me, but it could also be P. mammillaris. The fourth one is probably P. mammillaris. 

[Mikeyz]

Thanks again!

Because those teeth are isolated found, its difficult to identify them.

They are worn, rolled etc etc.

Nevertheless, i thought the same about the last one,

P.mammilaris.