Petrified Wood and Metamorphic Material from NW NC and southern VA Blue Ridge Mtns

[rockyourworld]

 

I showed some of this material to a geologist and licensed gemologist to verify what it is, and he said most is agate in some form, and that a lot is petrified wood.

I didn't know we had petrified wood up here. 

The longitudinal grain seems to be clearly defined, and gives a nice striped pattern. 

The cross-section cuts give sort of a cloud agate appearance.

 

The large "logs" are in the softer stages. 

They are composed of powdered phyllite mixed in with sand and mica. 

The mohs hardness is about 3.5. 

The teal blue striped material in the video is an example.

The quartz petrified wood is mohs 7 and quite brittle.  

 

Can anyone identify tree species?  Chestnut was abundant at one time.

 

 

 

Blue quartz w/ petrified wood (below) Grayson County, VA

 

White Top Mountain Rhyolite:

 

 

Petrified wood cross-cut on diameter:

 

Petrified wood lengthwise cut on lower right:

 

Petrified logs (some are soft):

 

Watauga County, NC specimens:

Edited January 7, 2022 by rockyourworld
more pictures

[FranzBernhard]

I am not positive on the pet wood. Looks more like stretched and deformed quartz veins. The soft ones could be some sort of schist.

Whats the general geology of the area?

Franz Bernhard

Edited January 7, 2022 by FranzBernhard

[Al Dente]

I agree with FranzBernhard. Some of these are metamorphic rocks. The age of rocks in Watauga County, NC predate any type of tree.

[JohnJ]

13 hours ago, rockyourworld said:

I showed some of this material to a geologist and licensed gemologist to verify what it is....

 

Was this two different people?  Was this just via photos or in person?  Are they familiar with the local geology?

 

I've cut many types of petrified wood and metamorphic rocks.  So far, none of these specimens clearly indicate fossil wood to me.  Do you have any sliced "end grain" photos?

[rockyourworld]

6 hours ago, JohnJ said:

 

Was this two different people?  Was this just via photos or in person?  Are they familiar with the local geology?

 

I've cut many types of petrified wood and metamorphic rocks.  So far, none of these specimens clearly indicate fossil wood to me.  Do you have any sliced "end grain" photos?

 

There is a cross cut piece in the OP. 

It is the 4th picture down. 

It looks like a cloud-agate cut in that direction.

It is always striped in the direction of sap-flow.

Many pieces are quite round like the big ones in the video background, and typically more oval than round.

 

The geologist/gemologist is the same person. 

He graduated from NC State and he runs a gem mine in NC foothills. 

The specimens came from the mountains about 60 miles from him.

He examined the pieces in person to evaluate them for lapidary use.

 

 

How about the "logs" in the pictures? 

What are they?

 

I think this is more likely silicified wood where sediments went into a partial to whole casting mold.

I noticed that several pieces of AZ wood exhibit this kind of evenly spaced 60 degree fracturing off of the center line:

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by rockyourworld

[rockyourworld]

11 hours ago, FranzBernhard said:

I am not positive on the pet wood. Looks more like stretched and deformed quartz veins. The soft ones could be some sort of schist.

Whats the general geology of the area?

Franz Bernhard

 

Northwest NC and the bordering areas in TN and VA. 

I have petrified coral from Mountain City about 10 miles from Watauga Co. 

The soft logs in Watauga (3.5 mohs) are within 15 miles of there.

 

 

 

 

Johnson City, TN has an excavation museum:  https://www.etmnh.org/

The best stuff comes from the Ybgg area.

Edited January 7, 2022 by rockyourworld
more pics

[rockyourworld]

Here is some more of the "petrified wood from NW NC and surrounding vicinity. 

Notice the pitted texture in the 4th picture. 

I've seen AZ agate that has similar material degradation.. 

The geologist says all this stuff is quartz.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by rockyourworld
more pics

[JohnJ]

Thanks for the additional photos.  I'm still skeptical that any of this is petrified wood.  Many exterior similarities are common in gneiss and schist.  Any cellular details in the cross cuts are not clearly visible in these photos.  

 

Do you have any scientific references that mention abundant occurrences of petrified wood in northwestern North Carolina?

 

I see nothing in the Ybgg.

[Ludwigia]

I'm afraid that I have to agree with my colleagues. No matter how hard I try, I'm just not seeing any fossilized wood here, but metamorphic rocks and quartz with inclusions in the veins.

[rockyourworld]

38 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

Thanks for the additional photos.  I'm still skeptical that any of this is petrified wood.  Many exterior similarities are common in gneiss and schist.  Any cellular details in the cross cuts are not clearly visible in these photos.  

 

Do you have any scientific references that mention abundant occurrences of petrified wood in northwestern North Carolina?

 

I see nothing in the Ybgg.

 

okay, that's a fair statement.

I don't think anyone has seriously studied this area for petrified wood.

It's not like I started out -- wanting this to be petrified wood.

I've already had two people that are into gemstone material + the geologist tell me it's pet-wood.

I have been skeptical of it though.

 

Given the abundant volcanic minerals from 750 million years ago, petrified wood seems like a plausible scenario.

The New River developed between 10 million and 350 million years ago, and it started as a series of large inland lakes that eventually cut through to the Ohio River.

Those volcanic minerals are still decomposing even today.

 

I'm a mechanical engineer, not a geologist.

I've studied the road cuts, creeks and riverbeds and there is only one place I know of

where circular "pet-wood" lays undisturbed and protruding a huge bolder up on a creek bank.

It is in Grayson County, and badly deteriorated.  I need to get pictures.

The same boulder contains a huge lense of blue quartz at 8 ft lower in elevation.

How can this be petrified wood?

 

Now, to finish out this post, I must say the petrified wood is less developed in the higher elevations of Watauga Co,

and becomes more developed as I go down the river through Ashe, Alleghany and Grayson Counties.

 

This is some from 3,300 ft elevation about 10 miles from Mountain City, TN.

There is abundant muscovite/phyllite scattered around the area.

I propose this as the initial casting stage for a series of pseudomorphs that follow.

The geologist says my better specimens have gone through at lest 2 possibly more pseudomorph transitions.

The initial stage is soft with teal phyllite inclusions.

The yellowish material is much like a jasperoid that I have found near Johnson City on an I-26 road cut, right before it starts the big elevation ascent into Unicoi County.

It also has the teal (phyllite?) inclusions.

I'll include a picture of the Johnson City material (see the last picture).

 

[rockyourworld]

3 hours ago, Ludwigia said:

I'm afraid that I have to agree with my colleagues. No matter how hard I try, I'm just not seeing any fossilized wood here, but metamorphic rocks and quartz with inclusions in the veins.

The proposed petrified coral, what is it?  Neither should it exist in the Ybgg area based on the age of the original granite/gneiss in the area.  I'm confused as to why that even matters in the first place.  It was not protruding from original granite or gneiss.  If it were, then I'd totally understand your conclusion. So what is it then?  

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by rockyourworld

[rockyourworld]

This is a close up on the Watauga soft material. 

I've seen western  petrified wood with dendritic staining that looks a lot like this.

I found this 10 miles from the proposed coral specimen on the other side of the continental divide.

It was found at 3300 ft elevation.  The coral was found at 2,531 ft elevation.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by rockyourworld

[sixgill pete]

Sorry  not wood. There is no petrified wood in Watauga County nor any county in the North Carolina mountains. The rocks there are some of the oldest on earth. As @Al Dente said they predate trees.

[rockyourworld]

14 hours ago, Al Dente said:

I agree with FranzBernhard. Some of these are metamorphic rocks. The age of rocks in Watauga County, NC predate any type of tree.

 

As I understand it, petrified wood comes from sediments in a lake, river, or stream after a log submerges and it is covered with silt. 

Why does the age of the original material matter that dissolved into the minerals that make petrified wood, agate, etc?

The material in Oregon is a very unique event where lava covered the wood and the wood-cells were replaced at a very detailed level.

That is the spectacular result. 

This appears to be the more common result, where a log gets buried in the mud, and there was plenty of that around here.

 

1 hour ago, sixgill pete said:

Sorry  not wood. There is no petrified wood in Watauga County nor any county in the North Carolina mountains. The rocks there are some of the oldest on earth. As @Al Dente said they predate trees.

 

I have never seen it protruding from granite, schist, gneiss or any other material that everyone keeps referring to from a geologic map -- and saying the material is too old.

I only find it in water or next to water though I've looked a lot of different places.  It is not attached to the old materials.

 

It is my understanding that petrified wood forms by mineral replacement. 

The original rock material erodes away and goes down the rivers and streams.

The silica ionizes and soaks into streambeds, etc.

Waterlogged wood sinks to the bottom where flooding can bring in silt, dirt, sand, and mud.

Wood that is buried in the silt can absorb those ionic minerals over a very long time.

The Silica ion concentration in water is always there, but the concentration is miniscule.

That's why it takes so long.

That is the typical scenario, unlike the more spectacular events in Arizona or Oregon.

 

It can happen about anywhere, is my understanding (or misunderstanding). 

There are petrified palm specimens in Florida.  https://cutthewood.com/diy/how-does-petrified-wood-form/

The requirements are wood + mud sediment + water + silica minerals + a long period of time.

During that time the wood must somehow be protected from decay.

Dissolved volcanic minerals are the best for preservation and coloration.

How is this incorrect?

I'm open to an explanation.

thank you.

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by rockyourworld

[rockyourworld]

42 minutes ago, sixgill pete said:

Sorry  not wood. There is no petrified wood in Watauga County nor any county in the North Carolina mountains. The rocks there are some of the oldest on earth. As @Al Dente said they predate trees.

 

Can you explain why I only find it in water,  and never anywhere else? 

I can find other minerals just about anywhere if I look long enough.

The "pet wood" is only found in streams or riverbeds.

Never anywhere else.  Never.

 

[rockyourworld]

3 hours ago, JohnJ said:

Do you have any scientific references that mention abundant occurrences of petrified wood in northwestern North Carolina?

 

The material I find is abundant ONLY  below the high-water-mark of several creeks, streams and the New River.  I have never found it anywhere else.  Not even once.

Edited January 8, 2022 by rockyourworld

[sixgill pete]

10 hours ago, rockyourworld said:

 

The material I find is abundant ONLY  below the high-water-mark of several creeks, streams and the New River.  I have never found it anywhere else.  Not even once.

 

The New River that flows north from Boone N.C. through Virginia into West Virginia is one of the oldest rivers in the world. 

Again it and the rocks in it predate trees. 

I have fished the New River hundreds of times over the last 30 years for trout, smallmouth bass and muskies. IF there was any petrified wood in it I would have found it. Sorry there is not. What you have is rock. And some of the oldest known rock on the planet.

[rockyourworld]

40 minutes ago, sixgill pete said:

 

The New River that flows north from Boone N.C. through Virginia into West Virginia is one of the oldestrivers in the world. 

Again it and the rocks in it predate trees. 

I havefished the New River hundreds oftimes over the last 30 years for trout, smallmouth bass and muskies. IF there was any petrified wood in it I would havefound it. Sorry there is not. Whatyou have isrock. And some of the oldest known rock on the planet.

 

The New River is estimated 10 million to 350 million years old. 

It is a very long river.

The specimens are brittle and they break up quickly. 

Even in the creeks where I find it, the material is often unrecognizable only 5 miles downstream.

 

Why is the age of the original rock material even relevant? 

Petrified wood doesn't work that way.

The original rock material dissolves.

The mineral solution penetrates the original wood and replaces it.

This takes a very long time.

Is this incorrect?

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by rockyourworld

[rockyourworld]

32 minutes ago, sixgill pete said:

Whatyou have isrock. And some of the oldest known rock on the planet.

 

and it is in water, nowhere else.  the oldest rock on the planet is found everywhere else around there.

The law of gravity says it formed in a creek, and was unable to escape.

Edited January 8, 2022 by rockyourworld

[FossilDAWG]

Why do you believe that material you posted is coral?  I see nothing in the photos to indicate any of the structures one would expect in coral, such as corallites, septa, tabulae, etc.  Indeed I see nothing that indicates any sort of organic origin for the specimens.

 

The museum in Johnson City (actually in Gray, south of Johnson City) you mentioned is located at a unique and extremely localized Miocene site.  This was a deep water-filled sinkhole in a collapsed cave that developed in underlying Mississippian carbonates.  Animals would be drawn to the water, fall in or blunder into the deep water, drown, and be buried in clay deep in the sinkhole.  The whole structure is just several hundred feet in diameter, and is not at all representative of the geology elsewhere in North Carolina or Tennessee.  Also it does not contain any silicified logs or petrified wood; the wood (and bone) from the site is not mineralized and rather is the original organic material and highly fragile.

 

Your "petrified wood" looks to me to be completely consistent with quartz and other rocks common in the igneous and metamorphic rock that makes up most of the Blue Ridge Mountains in that area.

 

Don

[FranzBernhard]

6 hours ago, rockyourworld said:

(It can happen about anywhere, is my understanding (or misunderstanding).)

The requirements are wood + (mud sediment) + water + silica minerals + (a long period of time.)

During that time the wood must somehow be protected from decay.

Dissolved volcanic minerals are the best for preservation and coloration.

How is this incorrect?

You aren´t so incorrect. I have put ingredients for silicified wood in bold.

Lets just formulate your hypothesis: You suppose, that your "pet wood" was formed in the New River, about 350 to 10 Million years ago. Is that what you think?

Just two contra arguments:

- Your specimens don´t look like pet wood.

- This quartz-rich, metamorphically produced stuff (quartz veins etc.) is rather stable and accumulates in rivers, while the soft schist etc. are more prone to disintegration. If you are carefully prospecting the slopes around the river, you will find some of this quartz stuff on the slopes for sure. But the better and more obvious ones are in river gravel, already selected by the exogenic forces of nature.

Franz Bernhard

[Ludwigia]

9 hours ago, rockyourworld said:

the proposed coral specimen

 

Whoever proposed that is also wrong in my opinion.

[Ludwigia]

7 hours ago, rockyourworld said:

Why is the age of the original rock material even relevant? 

 

For the umpteenth time: There were no trees in existence at the time that the original rock was created. Ergo, there can be no trees fossilized in it. Do you understand this now?

[Al Dente]

8 hours ago, rockyourworld said:

Petrified wood doesn't work that way.

The original rock material dissolves.

The mineral solution penetrates the original wood and replaces it.

This takes a very long time.

Is this incorrect?

It is not unreasonable to think petrified wood could form in younger stream sediments in areas of older outcrops. It is not likely to happen in the areas you collect. For petrified wood to form, you need to have rapid burial to cover the wood and then thousands to millions of years in low oxygen, mineral rich environment for the wood to be replaced. In the areas you are collecting, there is not enough sediment load to bury wood rapidly and deep enough to prevent the wood from decaying before it can be replaced by minerals.

 

Actual petrified wood usually has structures like wood grain that help in identification. I don’t see any structure like this in your pieces.

 

10 hours ago, rockyourworld said:

Can you explain why I only find it in water,  and never anywhere else? 

I can find other minerals just about anywhere if I look long enough.

The "pet wood" is only found in streams or riverbeds.

You are probably finding resistant silica rich parts of the surrounding outcrops in the river. Softer parts of the rocks have weathered away leaving only the more resistant parts that superficially resemble wood.

[Bobby Rico]

You stated that the rocks are 750  million years old, now that is old. The first trees I believe was Wattieza an genus that existed in the mid-Devonian that belong to the cladoxylopsids, close relatives of the modern ferns and horsetails. about 385 million years ago, so this can not be pet wood. It is most important to understand the geological age of the area you’re fossils hunting In .This info is an indication of what to look for.