Hemipristis teeth

[Mochaccino]

Hello,

 

Here is what I think is a nice lot of Hemipristis serra teeth from Florida, which are about 2~2.5cm size. However I have no experience with shark teeth or teeth in general so I was wondering if these seem real, if there seems to be any restoration/reconstruction? I think most of these have nice serrations, but how is the quality of enamel and root preservation?

 

Thanks.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Mochaccino

[siteseer]

It looks like a nice lot of Hemipristis teeth to me as well.  Those look like Bone Valley colors as well.  A few have some nicks so they don't look like they've been worked on.  It's unlikely anyone would spend any time trying to restore teeth in that size range.  You might see it if a tooth were around 2-inches.

[Mochaccino]

9 minutes ago, siteseer said:

It looks like a nice lot of Hemipristis teeth to me as well.  Those look like Bone Valley colors as well.  A few have some nicks so they don't look like they've been worked on.  It's unlikely anyone would spend any time trying to restore teeth in that size range.  You might see it if a tooth were around 2-inches.

 

I see, and on the spectrum of Hemipristis serra teeth are these specimens mid-decent quality, small teeth? If these aren't necessarily top quality or size I might buy one big, good one instead of this lot. Though I do like the variety of colors here!

Edited February 5, 2022 by Mochaccino

[siteseer]

11 minutes ago, Mochaccino said:

 

I see, and on the spectrum of Hemipristis serra teeth are these specimens mid-decent quality, small teeth? If these aren't necessarily top quality or size I might buy one big, good one instead of this lot. Though I do like the variety of colors here!

 

I would say they are good quality, medium-sized "Hemis."  I'd need to see each one on both sides with a profile, top, and bottom view to give you a more precise "grade."  It's tough to find a lot like that with the variety of colors.  Nearly all the sites where you could find teeth in that color range were closed to collecting about 20 years ago.  It's tough to find a large tooth with nice color.  You'd have to wait for one to come out of an old collection and you better see it before other people do.  There are collectors who'd rather have a 2-inch Hemipristis than a 5-inch megalodon just because a Hemi that size is quite rare whatever the color.

[Mochaccino]

2 minutes ago, siteseer said:

 

I would say they are good quality, medium-sized "Hemis."  I'd need to see each one on both sides with a profile, top, and bottom view to give you a more precise "grade."  It's tough to find a lot like that with the variety of colors.  Nearly all the sites where you could find teeth in that color range were closed to collecting about 20 years ago.  It's tough to find a large tooth with nice color.  You'd have to wait for one to come out of an old collection and you better see it before other people do.  There are collectors who'd rather have a 2-inch Hemipristis than a 5-inch megalodon just because a Hemi that size is quite rare whatever the color.

 

Interesting, most of Hemipristis I can see now are 1-1.5 in range so it seems 2 in really is quite rare.

 

Here are all the photos provided by the seller, with the 3rd I think showing the other side of all the teeth I think. Are these informative enough? Looking at these now with the scale it seems they're slightly smaller than 1 in. What do you think of their quality? To my untrained eye I see a few that are missing a couple serrations, but enamel seems good on both sides and for roots...I honestly can't tell whether there are parts missing or not.

 

 

[Coco]

I think these are beautiful teeth, and in this batch you have the advantage of having several positions of teeth. In Hemipristis jaw the teeth aren't the same according to their position.

 

Coco

[Even]

Nice teeth.

[siteseer]

Some collectors want just perfect teeth - no chipped serrations, no root abrasions (spots where the natural shape of the root is slightly eroded into).  To me a couple of chipped-off serrations and a little wear is okay.  I have plenty of incomplete specimens of unusually rare taxa because complete ones are almost mythical.  It's tough to get decent Bone Valley teeth with a nice range in color these days.  I would say that's a nice sample.  If I didn't have any Hemipristis teeth, I would buy that depending on the price.  This forum is a collecting forum - not a price guide - so we don't make appraisals.  You can be your own expert as far as what you want to pay for a given specimen or group of specimens. 

[Mochaccino]

4 hours ago, Coco said:

I think these are beautiful teeth, and in this batch you have the advantage of having several positions of teeth. In Hemipristis jaw the teeth aren't the same according to their position.

 

Coco

 

4 hours ago, Even said:

Nice teeth.

 

4 hours ago, siteseer said:

Some collectors want just perfect teeth - no chipped serrations, no root abrasions (spots where the natural shape of the root is slightly eroded into).  To me a couple of chipped-off serrations and a little wear is okay.  I have plenty of incomplete specimens of unusually rare taxa because complete ones are almost mythical.  It's tough to get decent Bone Valley teeth with a nice range in color these days.  I would say that's a nice sample.  If I didn't have any Hemipristis teeth, I would buy that depending on the price.  This forum is a collecting forum - not a price guide - so we don't make appraisals.  You can be your own expert as far as what you want to pay for a given specimen or group of specimens. 

 

Thank you for your input, everyone! I think I will be purchasing this lot of teeth after all. I don't have any teeth in my collection yet and it seems this set is a very colorful, visually appealing set that is in nice condition, and also good as specimens in their representation of the variety that Hemipristis teeth can have

 

[Mochaccino]

7 hours ago, siteseer said:

Some collectors want just perfect teeth - no chipped serrations, no root abrasions (spots where the natural shape of the root is slightly eroded into).  To me a couple of chipped-off serrations and a little wear is okay.  I have plenty of incomplete specimens of unusually rare taxa because complete ones are almost mythical.  It's tough to get decent Bone Valley teeth with a nice range in color these days.  I would say that's a nice sample.  If I didn't have any Hemipristis teeth, I would buy that depending on the price.  This forum is a collecting forum - not a price guide - so we don't make appraisals.  You can be your own expert as far as what you want to pay for a given specimen or group of specimens. 

So actually I'm told these teeth are from the Hawthorne formation in north central Florida, but not Bone Valley (I wasn't even aware of the difference). From the range of colors in this lot and your initial assessment it seems they appear similar to Bone Valley teeth? They certainly seem just as nice to me.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Mochaccino

[Gareth_]

Wow! I'd be happy to have them in my collection

I only have one Hemipristis tooth in my collection and it's well worn (amazing colours though). They never come up for sale here 

[Shellseeker]

2 hours ago, Mochaccino said:

So actually I'm told these teeth are from the Hawthorne formation in north central Florida, but not Bone Valley (I wasn't even aware of the difference). From the range of colors in this lot and your initial assessment it seems they appear similar to Bone Valley teeth? They certainly seem just as nice to me.

I have the REALLY fantastic good fortune to live within driving distance of bone valley, and at times I have had good friends who would either give me Bone Valley teeth as gifts or take me where I could finds them myself.... When you talk about Bone Valley Hemis,  I think of white roots....

 

Obviously,  the last one is not perfect, but I found it myself and likely my favorite.

[Mochaccino]

26 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

I have the REALLY fantastic good fortune to live within driving distance of bone valley, and at times I have had good friends who would either give me Bone Valley teeth as gifts or take me where I could finds them myself.... When you talk about Bone Valley Hemis,  I think of white roots....

 

Obviously,  the last one is not perfect, but I found it myself and likely my favorite.

Gorgeous teeth! And that second one is quite huge, yes? I'm envious of your proximity to Bone Valley. Sadly I live nowhere near any significant fossil sites
 

So would you say white roots are characteristic of Bone Valley? I do however see some BV listings online that don't have white roots, and your second tooth also doesn't quite seem to have white roots either...perhaps it's variable?

Edited February 6, 2022 by Mochaccino

[Mochaccino]

2 hours ago, Gareth_ said:

Wow! I'd be happy to have them in my collection

I only have one Hemipristis tooth in my collection and it's well worn (amazing colours though). They never come up for sale here 

It's incredible the range of colors these teeth can take on, they look almost like gemstones. I wonder what the fossilization process is behind this.

[Harry Pristis]

My fav's from BV:

 

[siteseer]

18 hours ago, Mochaccino said:

Gorgeous teeth! And that second one is quite huge, yes? I'm envious of your proximity to Bone Valley. Sadly I live nowhere near any significant fossil sites
 

So would you say white roots are characteristic of Bone Valley? I do however see some BV listings online that don't have white roots, and your second tooth also doesn't quite seem to have white roots either...perhaps it's variable?

 

You can get teeth with gray to black roots as well.  It's just whatever minerals the tooth was washed by after burial - the chemistry of the surrounding sediments - and then the amount of groundwater that might have started to wash away color plus the degree of exposure to the elements

[Mochaccino]

1 hour ago, siteseer said:

 

You can get teeth with gray to black roots as well.  It's just whatever minerals the tooth was washed by after burial - the chemistry of the surrounding sediments - and then the amount of groundwater that might have started to wash away color plus the degree of exposure to the elements

I see, so is there really any way to tell if a tooth is from bone valley? To me visually the teeth in the batch I posted look indistinguishable from them, or at least seem just as colorful and appealing. Perhaps it's because they're also from Florida so potentially similar fossilization processes took place.

 

From what I've seen so far there is one type of tooth that seems somewhat unique to BV, which is the navy blue enamel and white root combination, but this is hardly the only BV color as you've pointed out and has been posted here in this thread. If BV is a desirable label for whatever reason, I can imagine a lot of sellers have incentive to falsely slap the name on to justify a higher price, and as a buyer it would be hard to tell without clear distinguishing features.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Mochaccino

[Shellseeker]

56 minutes ago, Mochaccino said:

I see, so is there really any way to tell if a tooth is from bone valley?

YES,

This tooth is Bone Valley  --- and the Typical tooth known as a Bone Valley Meg.... Take a good look at it. Solid White root, solid one color blade.. The process that created this tooth (I believe) exists only in Bone Valley Florida.  I would be glad to be proven wrong.

 

Are there other Blade and root color patterns in shark teeth from Bone Valley.... yes,  all colors and mixtures of colors from the rainbow... However, many of those teeth "might" be found outside of Bone Valley also....

 

Here are some smaller sharks:  See the ones with white roots and one colored blades.... those are "Bone Valley Shark Teeth", and the rest, even though they were found in almost the exact location, are not "Bone Valley Teeth" to the extent that they are self identifying by blade/root color pattern.  However, dealers who are selling these pretty teeth with darker blades may be correct that the teeth were found in the boundaries of "Bone Valley"

 

Finally,  Here are some really nice teeth,  found in Florida, but about 35 miles from the area typically known as "Bone Valley".  I would love to call them "Bone Valley Teeth" because of EXTRA value associated with BVTs, and because I found them,  but I will not because I do not wish to muddy the water around my definition of Bone Valley Teeth.

[Mochaccino]

@Shellseeker

 

Ah I see, so the the following impression I had was on point:

 

1 hour ago, Mochaccino said:

From what I've seen so far there is one type of tooth that seems somewhat unique to BV, which is the navy blue enamel and white root combination

 

And that white root+dark enamel combo is indeed unique to BV, while other BV teeth colors can't be definitively identified as such. So teeth like these which are listed as BV teeth:

 

 

Cannot be ascertained as such based on their color, even though they may indeed be BV teeth. So I guess if one wants to look for assuredly identifiable BV teeth, they should be looking for that white+singular dark color combination? Very helpful to know, thanks.

 

Those are beautiful teeth by the way, and that meg is especially gorgeous!

Edited February 7, 2022 by Mochaccino

[siteseer]

Yeah, some colors are distinctive like that white root/blue crown combo but there are others like the orange crowned and yellow-crowned teeth.  It helps if you know people with a good collection of the teeth from the old days or if you've collected some of the teeth yourself.  You'll start to know Bone Valley when you see it - maybe even the dull-colored ones.  It's really about what you want.  If you like Hemipristis, you should pick up some Bone Valley ones if you find a good deal.

 

Also, If you look around the web, you'll get an idea of the range of colors.

[Mochaccino]

@Shellseeker @siteseer If I may borrow your expertise to see if I understand, something like the following would be characteristically and deterministically bone valley colors; white root+dark blade?

 

 

It has slight chips and a missing serration but overall seems to me like a decent tooth.

 

I also found this interesting, olive-green colored one listed as BV hemi. However in this case the root being grayish, not classic BV colors means one can't tell for sure?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Mochaccino

[Shellseeker]

xx

22 hours ago, Mochaccino said:

@Shellseeker

 

Ah I see, so the the following impression I had was on point:

 

 

And that white root+dark enamel combo is indeed unique to BV, while other BV teeth colors can't be definitively identified as such. So teeth like these which are listed as BV teeth:

 

 

Cannot be ascertained as such based on their color, even though they may indeed be BV teeth. So I guess if one wants to look for assuredly identifiable BV teeth, they should be looking for that white+singular dark color combination? Very helpful to know, thanks.

 

Those are beautiful teeth by the way, and that meg is especially gorgeous!

Sorry for response delay, I was out hunting.

I agree with all your points.

If I was trying to give the best possible advice to a friend, I would say the 2nd tooth is almost certainly a BVT.  I would not be so sure on the 1st. There is at least a 40% chance that it comes from another location on the US Atlantic coast or elsewhere. I have found very similar teeth in Bone Valley,

 

[Mochaccino]

1 hour ago, Shellseeker said:

xx

Sorry for response delay, I was out hunting.

I agree with all your points.

If I was trying to give the best possible advice to a friend, I would say the 2nd tooth is almost certainly a BVT.  I would not be so sure on the 1st. There is at least a 40% chance that it comes from another location on the US Atlantic coast or elsewhere. I have found very similar teeth in Bone Valley,

 

 

No worries, thanks! And could I ask you which of these 7 teeth seem to be the most nice, representative BVTs? I made a post in the ID thread after searching around for a few examples that I thought fit the bill: