Need Help To ID Dinosaur Vertebra

[Jurassic_Joe]

Hi everyone! I’m an amateur fossil collector who wants to collect and learn more about fossils and hope to learn more through this forum. Growing up I’ve always been fascinated by dinosaurs and sharks in particular.
 

Today I went to a fossil show and found a vertebra that I found particularly fascinating. I bought it not knowing exactly what it was so I can chase the thrill of learning what it is and why. The man I had purchased it from had said it was from a spinosaurus. However, I’m skeptical because he was also marketing a tooth as an allosaurus tooth. He was honest man and had told me that he wasn’t exactly sure what kind of tooth it was. Later, I found out the tooth in fact belonged to a carcharodontosaurus based on the matrix. Luckily I didn’t spend money on what was thought to be an allosaurus tooth. Nor did I spend too much on the vertebra. 

 

Now I don’t have a lot of information to go off of. I’m not quite sure where exactly the vertebra came from nor do I know how the gentleman came to own it. All I do have are the photos that I took of it. Judging from the looks of it, it does seem to have come from Morocco based on the color and other specimens I have seen. I also tried to study the skeleton of a spinosaur to see if I could ID it using reference photos. It’s difficult to tell but if it did come from a spinosaur, I’m thinking it’s part of the neck. Anyways, if I could get some help that would be great! Bonus points if you could tell me which part of the animal it came from.

[Tidgy's Dad]

I'm pretty sure that the centrum is not from the same specimen as the processes, the colour and size seem wrong. 

There is clearly cement between the two,, as seen in the last picture in a darker colour. 

Might be from the same species, but not the same specimen. 

[Troodon]

Agree its a composite.  The spines look Crocodilian and the centrum might be but its difficult to tell with these views.  The spine color looks like its from the Kem Kem beds of Morocco

[Tidgy's Dad]

21 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Agree its a composite.  The spines look Crocodilian and the centrum might be but its difficult to tell with these views.  The spine color looks like its from the Kem Kem beds of Morocco

Yes, the processes definitely seem to resemble crocodylomorphs I've seen from the Kem Kem. 

The centrum?  

[Jurassic_Joe]

Later I will upload more photos. I can say with certainty that the centrum is attached to the processes despite the color variation. Im not quite sure as to why there's a color variation but if came from a whole separate specimen then the person who attached it did too good of a job. The matrix would have had to have been added after cementing the two pieces together. I just don't see any evidence. Plus its inconsistent with the other parts that have actually been cemented. It wasn't done professionally and you can definitively tell. 

[digit]

20 minutes ago, Jurassic_Joe said:

The matrix would have had to have been added after cementing the two pieces together.

If there is any matrix left on the item (especially at the juncture of the two different colors) then that would be a big red flag. Matrix and glue are often used to mask poorly composited mash-ups of various fragments. I choose not to purchase fossils so I've never had one in hand to check but I've learned here on the forum that UV light can be used to detect the adhesives often used in these creations. You might consider purchasing one of the inexpensive powerful UV LED flashlights online (from a website that the uninformed might think is about a large South American river system) and shine it on this fossil to see what you might learn. I've heard of fossil buyers taking these lights with them to fossil shows and shining them on prospective purchases (usually surreptitiously) to learn more before buying.

 

Welcome to the forum--lots of great info here, and helpful members to boot!

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Jurassic_Joe]

Yes. Actually I've seen multiple people with these UV lights at the show yesterday. I think that would be a good investment. If I had to put money on it, i'd say that its not a spinosaur vertebra based on all the evidence as well as my experience with this man. He didn't have many dinosaur fossils to offer to begin with. Also on a side note, I do think that finding fossils on your own is MUCH more fun and satisfying than purchasing fossils. When it comes to dinosaur fossils in particular, its cheaper for me to purchase them rather than hunting them since I live in Florida which appeared long after the dinosaurs. But we have some really cool shark and mammal fossils! If anyone has any good recommendations as far as where I could possible find or hunt for dinosaur fossils that would be great! Ill take all the info I could get!

 

[jpc]

I agree that the top half looks crocish but the bottom doesn't.  But then I am not familiar with Kem Kem crocs.  

[jpc]

12 minutes ago, jpc said:

I agree that the top half looks crocish but the bottom doesn't.  But then I am not familiar with Kem Kem crocs.  I know there are some Mesozoic crocs whose centrum is not ball and socket, but the color change and weirdness between the two halves also tells me this s probably a composite.  Can we see ca close up of the suspected make-believe portion?

 

 

 

[Jurassic_Joe]

Absolutely. I’ll make sure to post more pictures later this evening!

 

 

[Jurassic_Joe]

After closer inspection, I can certainly tell that there was a lot of fabrication going on here. It appears to be frankinsteined. It looks a lot worse than initially thought. All well. For the price, it was worth a valuable lesson.