Platybelodon Molar?

[32fordboy]

I bought this rooted molar assuming it was platybelodon (seller misidentified it as chilotherium ) The orange one I have has been identified as Platybelodon grangeri. If you compare the rooted tooth and the orange tooth, the spacing between "cones" is different.

Can anybody on here identify the rooted tooth, keeping in mind it doesn't exactly match the orange grangeri tooth? Different species of Platybelodon? Maybe one is upper and one is lower? Other Gomphothere?

I hope that all made sense

Nick

Edited April 8, 2010 by 32fordboy

[32fordboy]

The orange one:

[tracer]

HAI PLZ!!! i wuz thinkling no buddy wil proly no whad to say cuz msu degreers lak me arent always ther 4 u, so anway its an Eritreum melakeghebrekristosi Lm3, so at long last you now no n can res.

bud i shud warn u nod 2 bye dentishunocities proly if u wan to no perzagly wher theyre frum unles u ged gibbon the zact logashun an frumation an if not straduh, bekuz eben tho ther mebbe difrenzes in morfoligicalitatiousnesses somewhud in teh m3's dey nod alwas b stadisticaly signifcant n derfor u need msu degree to make sttuf up to cal dem, spezly wid no metrilogical daduh comparavitly eider.

so anway, ids Eritreum melakeghebrekristosi so wride on card n kep frever

ps teh oder ting u posted ares dinosars frum crolinas prply, or bsn

lub - yer fren

tracers cat

can i hav fud now?

[32fordboy]

Wow. It would have taken me hours to write that The "frumation" of each has been lost to time, but they both came from Linxia Basin, Gansu, China.

Thanks for the advice, Tracer's Cat.

Nick

Edited April 8, 2010 by 32fordboy

[Auspex]

What are the 'likely suspects' from that site?

The e-references I have saved are all bird, but I'll check my copy of "Chinese Fossil Vertebrates" for clues (at 9 years old, given the state of study, it's already out of date, but still worth excavating).

[32fordboy]

That's what I'm not sure about. I'd have to say a little bit of everything I'll look it up this afternoon.

[32fordboy]

Hopefully Siteseer will chime in. That's how we got the ID for the last one.

[Auspex]

Complicated geology there...

Stop me if you've heard this;

The Mio-Plio fauna (according to the above mentioned book) is divided into the following land-mammal stages (starting with the oldest), and associated with the following mastodonts:

Shanwangian and Tunggurian: Ambelodon, Synconolophus, Zygolophodon, Choerolophodon, Gomphotherium, Platybeledon.

Bahean and Baodean: Sinomastodon, Tetralophodon, Zygolophodon, Choerolophodon.

Jinglean, Youhean, and Nihewanian: Anancus, Mammut, Sinomastodon.

Really good site info would really expedite the narrowing-down of possibilities, since the different faunal zones are largely from different sites.

[32fordboy]

Yeah, site info would help. Unfortunately, it seems the Chinese don't care much about formation information.

I'm pretty sure it's from one of the following, but not 100% positive: Dongxiang (early Miocene, Laogou (middle Miocene), or Liushu (late Miocene).

I'll check google for images later.

Nick

[Auspex]

What with you being a mammal fan, and all the amazing Chinese material being studied, you might shop around for a copy of this:

It's not a "field guide" for identification; it's a synopsis that will help make sense of it all.

[32fordboy]

Excellent, thanks for the recommendation

[Seldom]

They got a copy here for 24 buck cheapest I have seen it.

http://www.betterworldbooks.com/list.aspx?SearchTerm=%22Chinese+Fossil+Vertebrates%22

[Auspex]

They got a copy here for 24 buck cheapest I have seen it.

http://www.betterworldbooks.com/list.aspx?SearchTerm=%22Chinese+Fossil+Vertebrates%22

I got mine from McCullough's for $12.95 (new).

http://mcculloughfossils.com/books.htm

Hopefully they still have some!

[siteseer]

Hopefully Siteseer will chime in. That's how we got the ID for the last one.

Nick,

I had roll back the tape in the FF archives to find out how I became an "elephant man." Your request for an ID on the orange tooth coincided with a Florida trip I took last year. I was checking the forum while visiting a friend, a collector who happens to know his elephants, and he made the ID as noted then. I can send him the photo of your new acquisition and ask for his opinion. Both your teeth look like gomphothere lowers. I can say that much.

There is an article that provides a faunal list for the Late Miocene mammals of China - will check for you on that. I made copies of that one for two friends but can't find my copy (or neglected to make myself one).

Auspex brought up "Chinese Fossil Vertebrates" and I agree with his assessment that it is a good general guide but not the exhaustive reference that some were hoping for prior to its publication. In fact, one of my friends was so disappointed with it (he had expected a more detailed breakdown of the Miocene-Pleistocene mammals) that he gave me his copy.

If you check page 250, you get a general breakdown of the probiscideans by fauna (though he doesn't seem to know that mastodonts and gomphotheres represent distinct families). According to that, Platybelodon comes from the older Middle Miocene formation that also yields Anchitherium (and from what I've seen a hemicyonid) not from the one known for Hipparion (and Machairodus, the gazelle, the wolverine, the hyenas, and the big rhino, Chilotherium).

Jess

[32fordboy]

Welp, turns out that book is already in my arsenal. It's pretty basic, but I'll keep searching Google. Thanks for yor help so far

Nick

[anancus]

They are both Platybelodon , but orange one is lower left, other is upper right. Typical cone arrangement of Platybelodon. Too narrow and having well developed hypsodonty to be a Choerolophodon, gomphotherium, sinomastodon or Amebelodon. Strong cementum is another character for Platybelodon. A bit complex pattern of upper molar resembles Amebelodon but still not that bulky as a typical amebelodon.sNeed measurements for better identification.

Best

Anancus

[32fordboy]

Now that's a good reply! They're both roughly 7" long, I'd have to find them and measure them.

Nick

[32fordboy]

Okay, max measurements for the orange one are:

L 7"

W 2.2"

H 4.5"

And the white one:

L 6.3"

W 2.4"

H 5.2"

So the white one is more bulky, I suppose.

Nick