Mazon newbie looking for guidance

[debivort]

Hi — I was lucky enough to collect a few dozen Mazon nodules this weekend. But I am not familiar with how to best prepare and understand this material. Is there a guide that would answer questions like these:

• Do I freeze-thaw specimens where fossils are already showing? What about 3d fossil that is partially obscured by matrix?

 

• Are fossils best viewed wet or dry? (seems like dry)

• How do I know what's a blobby worm or jellyfish vs a blobby bit of matrix? 

 

• Are there categories of finds (besides obviously empty nodules) that are not worth posting for ID? 

 

I'm having trouble answering many of these questions based on googling around the forum, since so many threads highlight specimens that seem quite conspicuous and outstanding compared to what I'm seeing so far.

Tagging @Nimravis Would also love to learn of other Mazon enthusiasts who might like to be tagged in future threads.

[Fossildude19]

@Nimravis  @stats  @RCFossils @deutscheben  @Mark Kmiecik

[Fossildude19]

You should do a search of the Forum for "Mazon Creek" , as you are not the only person to have asked these questions in the past 14 years. 

[Runner64]

16 minutes ago, debivort said:

• Do I freeze-thaw specimens where fossils are already showing? What about 3d fossil that is partially obscured by matrix?

Typically no.  I have opened enough Essexela that I will try to freeze-thaw poorly preserved ones again but I would not recommend that you continue to freeze-thaw concretions that have already opened to show a fossil.

 

17 minutes ago, debivort said:

• Are fossils best viewed wet or dry? (seems like dry)

Sometimes it is best to view them wet and sometimes dry.  It depends on the level of preservation and type of concretion matrix.

 

18 minutes ago, debivort said:

• How do I know what's a blobby worm or jellyfish vs a blobby bit of matrix? 

Please feel free to post any pictures on ones you are unsure of and would be happy to give an opinion on them.

 

18 minutes ago, debivort said:

• Are there categories of finds (besides obviously empty nodules) that are not worth posting for ID? 

Nope!  If there is anything you are unsure of an ID for, please post it.  After some experience, you will begin to pick up some of the traits in some plants/animals that are helpful for identifying.  If you don't already have them, I would suggest Jack Wittry's fauna & flora books.  Richardson's Guide is also another good one.

[debivort]

26 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

You should do a search of the Forum for "Mazon Creek" , as you are not the only person to have asked these questions in the past 14 years. 

I mentioned in my post how I have done that, and I indeed find many threads, a couple dozen of which I have read. My request is to be pointed to resources (here or on external sites) on how to broadly approach this material. Maybe I missed that in my searching. If so, sorry.

[debivort]

29 minutes ago, Runner64 said:

Typically no.  I have opened enough Essexela that I will try to freeze-thaw poorly preserved ones again but I would not recommend that you continue to freeze-thaw concretions that have already opened to show a fossil. — More or less makes sense. I will reply with photos of a couple pieces where I don't know how to proceed.

 

Sometimes it is best to view them wet and sometimes dry.  It depends on the level of preservation and type of concretion matrix.  — OK Thanks

 

Please feel free to post any pictures on ones you are unsure of and would be happy to give an opinion on them. — Thanks, that's very kind!

 

Nope!  If there is anything you are unsure of an ID for, please post it.  After some experience, you will begin to pick up some of the traits in some plants/animals that are helpful for identifying.  If you don't already have them, I would suggest Jack Wittry's fauna & flora books.  Richardson's Guide is also another good one. — Thanks for the book leads, I'll try to pick these up.

 

[deutscheben]

Welcome to the Mazon collecting community! It's not easy, and can be frustrating, but if you keep at it you will find some wonderful things. As @Runner64 was saying, there aren't straightforward answers and you should expect uncertainty, but the community here will try and help. Keep reading through old posts and you will find very valuable insights- that is how I started out too. 

[Fossildude19]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I found all of these in the first 12 of 27 pages of my search of the Forum.

 

I used quotes areund "Mazon Creek" and limited the search to Titles only. 

[Mark Kmiecik]

The answer to all of your questions is the same. Take a photo, post it, ask the question. I and the others will give you all the help we can. MC specimens can be tricky and some that look like nothing to you may actually be a rare species. For instance, this is a jellyfish.

 

[debivort]

6 minutes ago, Mark Kmiecik said:

The answer to all of your questions is the same. Take a photo, post it, ask the question. I and the others will give you all the help we can. MC specimens can be tricky and some that look like nothing to you may actually be a rare species. For instance, this is a jellyfish.

 

Thanks so much, Mark! I'm excited to start posting some photos. I actually have one that looks a bit like your jellyfish example. 

[debivort]

4 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

I found all of these in the first 12 of 27 pages of my search of the Forum.

I used quotes areund "Mazon Creek" and limited the search to Titles only. 

Thanks! I had read through most of these already.

[stats]

This will help.

https://www.esconi.org/esconi_earth_science_club/2020/09/mazon-monday-27-care-and-feeding-of-your-mazon-creek-concretions-fossils-mazoncreek-concretions.html

 

We have a bunch of useful posts on our website.  That and what is on this forum should get you started.

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

[debivort]

3 full days of soaking down. maybe 4 more until I pull out a batch of small nodules to freeze. Meanwhile ...

 

Do y'all have advice on what to do if there are 3d fossils showing on the outside of a nodule, such as this one (photos show two sides of same nodule): Proceed as normal?

 

Any particular recommendation if the broken face of a nodule has a thick fossil showing, as in this nodule? Proceed as normal? 

 

[Runner64]

42 minutes ago, debivort said:

3 full days of soaking down. maybe 4 more until I pull out a batch of small nodules to freeze. Meanwhile ...

 

Do y'all have advice on what to do if there are 3d fossils showing on the outside of a nodule, such as this one (photos show two sides of same nodule): Proceed as normal?

 

Any particular recommendation if the broken face of a nodule has a thick fossil showing, as in this nodule? Proceed as normal? 

 

In my opinion, this is just the fossil plane. It may indicate there’s a fossil inside. Soak in water along with the others and freeze after about 10 days. Good luck!

[debivort]

8 minutes ago, Runner64 said:

In my opinion, this is just the fossil plane. It may indicate there’s a fossil inside. Soak in water along with the others and freeze after about 10 days. Good luck!

cool. Same approach for both? The top specimen seems to have fossils around the outside (that look like one of @Mark Kmiecik's Calamostachys specimens).

 

[Runner64]

1 hour ago, debivort said:

cool. Same approach for both? The top specimen seems to have fossils around the outside (that look like one of @Mark Kmiecik's Calamostachys specimens).

 

Yep same for both. I don’t see any fossils on the outside of it. I believe you’re referencing the fossil plane. When you freeze thaw it, it will crack along those joints and show the possible fossil inside.

[debivort]

6 hours ago, Runner64 said:

Yep same for both. I don’t see any fossils on the outside of it. I believe you’re referencing the fossil plane. When you freeze thaw it, it will crack along those joints and show the possible fossil inside.

Hmm. I feel like I'm completely uncalibrated then... Is this not a (plant) fossil? I see 6 or 7 segments with what look like cross sections of thin leaves coming off many of the nodes. If this is a fossil and it's the main plane of preservation, it would pop off a disk of nodule material the size of a large coin from a nodule the size of a large kiwi fruit. Maybe the photos aren't capturing it.

[Runner64]

5 hours ago, debivort said:

If this is a fossil and it's the main plane of preservation, it would pop off a disk of nodule material the size of a large coin from a nodule the size of a large kiwi fruit.

Yes, popping off the disk-shaped flake of concretion will reveal more within it.

[Mark Kmiecik]

16 hours ago, debivort said:

Same approach for both? The top specimen seems to have fossils around the outside (that look like one of @Mark Kmiecik's Calamostachys specimens).

Yup -- same approach. Soak 'em. Freeze/thaw 'em. Look for cracks. Tap with hammer. Repeat.

 

7 hours ago, debivort said:

I see 6 or 7 segments with what look like cross sections of thin leaves coming off many of the nodes.

You sure do. However, this is only the edge of what's inside. Proceed as normal. Soak. Freeze. Thaw. Inspect. Tap with hammer. Repeat. Boring as heck 'til one pops open, then WHOOPEEEEEEE!

 

2 hours ago, Runner64 said:

If this is a fossil and it's the main plane of preservation, it would pop off a disk of nodule material the size of a large coin from a nodule the size of a large kiwi fruit.

Yes, and there may be another plane or two containing fossils. A common occurrence for MC fossils. Some on the surface on one side, some on the other side, and some in between.

[debivort]

3 hours ago, Mark Kmiecik said:

You sure do. However, this is only the edge of what's inside. Proceed as normal. Soak. Freeze. Thaw. Inspect. Tap with hammer. Repeat. Boring as heck 'til one pops open, then WHOOPEEEEEEE!

awesome, this just elevates the anticipation!

 

3 hours ago, Mark Kmiecik said:

there may be another plane or two containing fossils

Is there ever a point where one freeze-thaws one of the halves of a previous freeze-thaw split? to get at those other planes?

[Mark Kmiecik]

51 minutes ago, debivort said:

Is there ever a point where one freeze-thaws one of the halves of a previous freeze-thaw split? to get at those other planes?

Only if you think that what might be inside is better than what is already exposed. Sometimes the first one will survive additional freeze/thaw with no ill effects. Sometimes freeze/thaw will expose both or more at once. MC fossils are like a box of chocolates -- you never know what you're gonna get.

[debivort]

I've been through 2 freeze thaws of my small nodules. The big ones are still soaking. Most of the time I see some hairline fracturing, it turns out only the rind/outer layers of the nodule are ready to go. 

 

Anything different to do with nodules like the following, which surprised me in various ways? I'd appreciate any guidance.

This one broke perpendicular to what seems to be the fossil plane? Do I proceed with each half, and maybe reassemble them once the both split?

 

The outer layers came off revealing a decent fossil (right) that is on the outer surface of the nodule. It looks (left) like there is still a promising fossil plane through the middle of the nodule.

 

This nodule seems to have many fossiliferous layers on both sides, almost like a book of fossil layers.

 

 

I suspect you all will tell me to proceed with the freeze thaw as planned!

 

 

[Mark Kmiecik]

3 hours ago, debivort said:

This one broke perpendicular to what seems to be the fossil plane? Do I proceed with each half, and maybe reassemble them once the both split?

 

Yes, it did. Continue to freeze/thaw both pieces. Let them soak longer before restarting the process. This appears to be very dense and fine-grained. I would give it a 2-week soak before resuming.

 

3 hours ago, debivort said:

 

This one has a small piece of Calamites cistii? on the surface. If you have a better specimen of that species, continue to freeze/thaw. If not, wait until you do. That maybe something better peeking out at us in the first photo, but again, resist the temptation until you have a better C. cistii.

 

3 hours ago, debivort said:

 

This one has indeterminate pieces of vegetation all over it. Just continue freeze/thaw. This one is rather coarse/porous, so about 5 days of soaking for its size should do.

 

[debivort]

12 minutes ago, Mark Kmiecik said:

Yes, it did. Continue to freeze/thaw both pieces. Let them soak longer before restarting the process. This appears to be very dense and fine-grained. I would give it a 2-week soak before resuming.

 

This one has a small piece of Calamites cistii? on the surface. If you have a better specimen of that species, continue to freeze/thaw. If not, wait until you do. That maybe something better peeking out at us in the first photo, but again, resist the temptation until you have a better C. cistii.

 

This one has indeterminate pieces of vegetation all over it. Just continue freeze/thaw. This one is rather coarse/porous, so about 5 days of soaking for its size should do.

Thanks so much for the tips, Mark! 

 

All of these pieces were soaked for 10 days before any freeze thaws, and after that went through 2days freezing, 2days thawing, 2days freezing, 1day thawing (up to today). I'll get the first piece(s) back in the soaking bucket for another week maybe. 

 

I think I have better Calamites, though on the other thread there wasn't total certainty as to the species (http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/125529-my-first-two-mazon-specimens/). I think you were guessing cistii for both of these specimens at about 85% confidence:

[Mark Kmiecik]

1 minute ago, debivort said:

I think I have better Calamites, though on the other thread there wasn't total certainty as to the species (http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/125529-my-first-two-mazon-specimens/). I think you were guessing cistii for both of these specimens at about 85% confidence:

 

I'm pretty sure those are C. cistii, and better specimens. I would proceed with additional cycles.