Part 2 Fossil hunting trip in Utica, Illinois October/29/2022

[Joseph Fossil]

This is the second part of my post describing my recent fossil hunting trip with @Tales From the Shale in Utica, of which it was awesome!!!

 

So after visiting the abandoned clay pit, we decided to go to another location in Utica one might not expect to be productive - the former peabody coal company Pit 15 (or at least its outskirts), located not to far away from Lake Shannon, Kankakee County, Illinois (I'm am not going to tell the specific route or address so the area doesn't end up being picked clean). We went there as I had heard a report that a while ago, someone found a sizable Cladodus (or cladodont labeled as Cladodus) tooth at Pit 15 itself. 

 

At the top of the outskirts of the Pit was truly Beautiful!!!

 

 

 

 

I expected to find simply nodules in the area. What I found instead were a staggering amount of different rocks with a descent portion containing fossils, most of brachipods though. As the area was once a mine, I've somewhat come up with a theory as to why this is - when the mines were closed, the pit was filled not just with nodule containing rocks but by all the types of rocks available in the Utica area ranging from shale to clay to limestone, likely either Ordovician or Carboniferous in age. It's still a pretty productive site and I've recently analyzed many of the specimens with a microscope and dissecting scope and I hope to get some IDs from them!

 

Here's a possible shark spine I found there!

 

 

 

 

 

[Joseph Fossil]

Here's what I think is either Carboniferous Lobe fined fish or a Carboniferous Chondrichyan, but I currently don't know what genera it is? 

 

 

 

 

This next one I also think could be a Carboniferous Chondrichyan, genera still currently unknown?

 

 

Part of me does think these specimens could be the heads of juvenile Ctenacanthiforms based on their shape (Pit 15 is not too far away from that Bandringa nursery discovered not too long ago). Maybe even juvenile Gilkmanius or juvenile Saivodus striatus, but still I don't know what genera these specimens belong?

 

[Joseph Fossil]

Here's another possible Shark spine.

 

 

 

 

I don't really know what this one could be? Maybe Bandringa head? 

 

 

 

 

Possible worm specimen.

 

 

 

This could be some Shark spines or teeth, but still don't know yet?

 

 

 

 

 

Possible juvenile Shark or Lobe fined fish jaw.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joseph Fossil]

Two Rocks though I really think contain some sort of Chondrichthyan genera. 

 

This one was already split into two parts by the elements when I found it and it looks like it contains either the fin or the spine of a Chondrichthyan, genera still unknown.

 

 

 

 

 

This one has what appears to be a small Chondricthyan tooth on its edge and a Chondrichthyan spine on its back, genera currently unknown.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joseph Fossil]

Here is what I think could be a Lobed fined fish jaw or even the imprint of a juvenile Edestus or a fossilized worm imprint?

 

 

 

 

Possible Shark spine.

 

 

 

 

Possible lobe fined fish or Chondrichthyan head, genera currently unknown.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joseph Fossil]

Would anyone have an ID for these specimens? 

 

@Tales From the Shale @FossilDAWG @deutscheben @connorp @jdp What do you guys think?

 

[connorp]

I don't see any obvious fossils here.

[Joseph Fossil]

4 minutes ago, connorp said:

I don't see any obvious fossils here.

 

You sure? 

[Joseph Fossil]

4 minutes ago, connorp said:

I don't see any obvious fossils here.

 

If not, what do you think they are?

[ClearLake]

I’m very confused. Pennsylvanian fish are not something I’m very familiar with, but are any of these really fish remains?  I see mostly staining, maybe mineral staining, scratch marks, maybe some unidentifiable fossil bits, etc.  But an Edestus head?  A lobe fined fish head?  I would like to see some real fossils of these items to compare. I know you are looking for fish remains, but that doesn’t mean that you are finding them. I need help to believe these are actually recognizable fossils. 

[Joseph Fossil]

11 minutes ago, ClearLake said:

I’m very confused. Pennsylvanian fish are not something I’m very familiar with, but are any of these really fish remains?  I see mostly staining, maybe mineral staining, scratch marks, maybe some unidentifiable fossil bits, etc.  But an Edestus head?  A lobe fined fish head?  I would like to see some real fossils of these items to compare. I know you are looking for fish remains, but that doesn’t mean that you are finding them. I need help to believe these are actually recognizable fossils. 

 

@ClearLake You’re right. I know the Edestus head guess was kinda a stretch, but it was the only guess thing I could come up with for this, especially that slight curvature of the line shown in the specimen under a dissecting scope and what look likes tooth striations.

[Joseph Fossil]

15 minutes ago, ClearLake said:

I’m very confused. Pennsylvanian fish are not something I’m very familiar with, but are any of these really fish remains?  I see mostly staining, maybe mineral staining, scratch marks, maybe some unidentifiable fossil bits, etc.  But an Edestus head?  A lobe fined fish head?  I would like to see some real fossils of these items to compare. I know you are looking for fish remains, but that doesn’t mean that you are finding them. I need help to believe these are actually recognizable fossils. 

 

@ClearLake The Shale specimens I'm leaning on at least possibly fish

 

 

Definitely this one. It even looks like it has a head!

[Joseph Fossil]

@ClearLake @Kane These other ones I'm also pretty sure are not mineral, their shapes look just too organic for me to dismiss them. Another guess (if these are shark spines) is poorly preserved Listracanthus specimens.

 

 

Spine striations seem pretty visible here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Joseph Fossil

[connorp]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Fossil said:

@ClearLake These other ones I'm also pretty sure are not mineral, their shapes look just too organic for me to dismiss them. Another guess (if these are shark spines) is poorly preserved Listracanthus specimens.

 

 

Spine striations seem pretty visible here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

These look like scratch marks on what is probably a glacial erratic.

[Joseph Fossil]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Fossil said:

@ClearLake @Kane These other ones I'm also pretty sure are not mineral, their shapes look just too organic for me to dismiss them. Another guess (if these are shark spines) is poorly preserved Listracanthus specimens.

 

 

Spine striations seem pretty visible here.

 

 

 

This third one could be crinoid though too.

 

 

 

[Joseph Fossil]

1 minute ago, connorp said:

These look like scratch marks on what is probably a glacial erratic.

 

@connorp Not what I was expecting but still pretty cool!

[Joseph Fossil]

@connorp What about these ones? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ClearLake]

18 minutes ago, Joseph Fossil said:

Definitely this one. It even looks like it has a head!

An oval blob could be a lot of things (one of them being just an oval blob) but I see nothing on this that says fish head.  No indications of bones or plates, no real symmetry, no other real morphology that one can point to as fish. At least not that I see. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by ClearLake

[Joseph Fossil]

1 minute ago, ClearLake said:

An oval blob could be a lot if things (one of them being just an oval blob) but I see nothing on this that says fish head.  No indications of bones or plates, no real symmetry, no other real morphology that one can point to as fish. At least not that I see. 

 

@ClearLake I will agree with you it's not too too obvious, but that shape just seems a bit off. If it was something like oval with a single color, I won’t think it was a fossil. But seems more slender and more fish like. It reminded me of a specimen I found close to Pit 11 which @Tales From the Shale helped me identify as a lobed fined fish. I even checked with my old geology professor from college whose been to Mazon Creek and she came to the same ID.

 

Mazon Creek Pit 11 Specimen

 

 

 

Pit 15 Specimen

 

 

[deutscheben]

I don't see anything that looks like fish material here, including that Pit 11 concretion, I'm afraid. There might be some fossils here, but whatever is there is faint and indeterminate. 

[Tales From the Shale]

Which one were you referring to as the fish?

[Joseph Fossil]

19 minutes ago, Tales From the Shale said:

Which one were you referring to as the fish?

 

@Tales From the Shale I'm referring to both the  Pit 11 specimen and the Pit 15 specimen listed right below.

[Joseph Fossil]

1 hour ago, Joseph Fossil said:

@connorp What about these ones? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Tales From the Shale Also I think these are fish parts too

[Fin Lover]

I'm glad I'm not the only one not seeing fossils here.

[Joseph Fossil]

@Fin Lover I think...you may be right for the rocks from this site. Not going lie, bit disappointed these weren’t either clear fossils or (for the majority) not fossils at all?