Texas bison axis vertebra?

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

I found this big vertebra awhile back here in SE Texas. I think it might be from a bison based on it's size and shape...not sure of the species and I can't figure out the age. It has some mineralization to it. Typically what I find in my neck of the woods has a darker color and is heavy when I think of Pleistocene material. I understand now about tannins in the water and not using it's color as an age factor to go off of (which i typically did)...and also about where and for how long the bone sat in the ground before exposure can determine its mineralization and also it's color. I've been told that you can find something heavy and dark and completely fossilized next to something that's white and not heavy at all and be just as old. Is that right? I mean I believe the person but have others here seen the same thing or have a hard time questioning these lighter bones as being Pleistocene in age? I have found completely fossilized bison material and it's been darker in color. Research online shows lighter bones in other parts of the country being old. How about you other Texas and Florida folks?  Do any of you find Pleistocene bones locally that aren't fossilized or dark in color...and not just extinct species...but horse, cow, bison?

[Jared C]

Not much help here, but just marveling at your Pleistocene prowess. Anyone I've hunted with can attest that I complain of the Pleistocene being my bitter rival, can't figure it out! 

At the rate you're making finds, I bet you have a mammoth tooth around the corner 

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

Thank you Jared. I think I've only just begun. The area I've searched keeps on giving everytime I go out. But it's just a small, tiny section of the river that ive hunted. I've been limited on how far I can go but I hope this coming year I'll be able to stretch my legs out because I think the best is yet to come. I still have a table full of pieces I haven't posted but I will soon. You know, I found the jag canine, the Eremotherium piece, camel, mammoth enamel and the usual others...but there's gotta be much  more of these in that stretch so when I can I want to try a little harder to search it. SE Texas...Colorado River gravel banks...there's always plenty of room for more to hunt it and the landscape is constantly changing...covering and uncovering so I wish everyone a safe and prosperous hunting adventure this next year. 

[ClearLake]

A very nice vert you have there.  Not to nitpick, but it is not an axis vertebra, it is one of the other cervical (neck) vertebrae.  The axis is the second vertebra from the skull and attaches to the atlas with a somewhat specialized joint.  After the axis, the rest of the cervical vertebrae are more or less identical.  Here is a picture of an axis from a cow (I know its not a bison, but they are very similar and the concept is the same) which shows you how the front end of the axis has a specialized joint that connects with the atlas.  What you have is one of the vertebra behind (to the right in the picture) it. 

 

As I said in one of your other posts, bone color as an estimation of age should be taken pretty lightly.  Yes, older bones tend to be darker than modern (clean) bones, but it is not some sort of linear scale from light to very dark with increasing age.  The resulting color has more to do with the weathering, burial history and the conditions of the surrounding sediments and fluids than it does with age.

 

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

Very cool. Thank you for correctly identifying it as not being an axis. 

[Gus the Grinch]

I am pretty certain that is bison antiquus. Mine is broken and found in creek water, but I am pretty sure they are the same.

[CDiggs]

I agree with ClearLake, its a cervical vert. I've got a nearly identical vert that I've ID'd as Bison that's well mineralized, doesn't smell when torched, and has a very similar coloring, but I was similarly skeptical the whole time I was hauling it home, washing it up and waiting for it to finish drying. I'll try to post photos tomorrow when I've got it in hand and have the time to shoot it. I feel like I've posted this link a lot but I used https://iiif.lib.harvard.edu/manifests/view/drs:433910296$37i to try and rule out cow when I wasn't totally convinced of its age. Comparing your photos to the diagrams in Olsen I'm leaning Bison but with the fossil in hand you'll have an easier time making the comparisons.

[ClearLake]

4 hours ago, Gus the Grinch said:

Mine is broken and found in creek water, but I am pretty sure they are the same.

The same as what?  I don't think the picture you have posted is a cervical vertebrae of anything, it looks more like a piece from the base of the skull.  Perhaps other photos would convince me otherwise, but I will be surprised if that is so.

[Gus the Grinch]

 I'm an amateur and doing the best I can without experience. 

[ClearLake]

I apologize if my comment came off as insensitive. It was not intended that way.  
 

In the fossil ID section, we are usually trying to get clarity on what an item is, I was merely trying to point out that I did not think the item was similar to the original post and to suggest an alternate ID. 

 

 

[Brandy Cole]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:38 AM, johnnyvaldez7.jv said:

How about you other Texas and Florida folks?  Do any of you find Pleistocene bones locally that aren't fossilized or dark in color...and not just extinct species...but horse, cow, bison?

I absolutely find mineralized fossils that aren't dark in color.

 

I almost didn't dig up the glyptodont vertebra below out of the sand because at that time, all the fossils I had found before were all black or chocolate brown, so what I could see of the color of this one made me think it was modern.  But I went back for it because the shape just didn't look like cow. Glad I did!

 

And one of the lightest colored fossils I have is probably the pre-equus astragalus below.  It's also probably the oldest mammal piece I've found.

 

Also, all the hesperotestudo pieces I've found are that light color, and a couple are  permineralized in places.  I'm uncertain whether they're actually older than the more common chocolate pieces I find, but they're definitely more heavily mineralized.

 

I do find modern non-mineralized bones from time to time, mostly from deer and cow.  They're normally a stained grey color but don't have the signs of mineralization.  Modern bones are by far less common than fossils where I hunt.  

 

I've also heard stories of people finding bones in the area from extinct species that still had not completely mineralized yet.  Apparently that's not unheard of when you're dealing with late Pleistocene fossils. 

 

So there's a wide variety.  The color and level of mineralization just depends on the matrix they were made in.

 

Typically, I think most Pleistocene exposures in our area of Southeast Texas come from where the Lissie and Beaumont formations meet. There's a lot of clay in both groups, and the fossils tend to have a dark color. 

 

But there are occasional small outcroppings of the Fleming formation too, and the Fleming formation produces Miocene fossils.  I've often wondered if my little astragalus came from Fleming sandstone.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Brandy Cole
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