What can I do to make my fossils more useful to science?

[DarasFossils]

I have a collection of at least 50 fossils, and at this point, I have something from every major time period and major life group. I've been collecting for a couple of years now, with a focus on trilobites but I have lots of other things too. But I am being to be concerned that through collecting, I am taking away material that could be studied by scientists to learn more about prehistoric life. Of course things like Elrathia Kingii are so numerous and well studied that I think pretty much anyone could or should be able to own one, but sometimes I will purchase a fossil and there will be little to no information about it online. I'm also concerned since I've read about how fossil poaching can impact scientists' studies of a specific locality and that really bothers me if I've at all contributed to that. I don't want to donate my entire collection, as I love making displays in my house and looking them over to study myself, but there's a few I feel might be better suited in a place where they can be studied by actual scientists. I've learned so much through having them and seeing them in real life in my home, but I am not exactly equipped to be making studies that are contributing to the field. Is there anywhere I can loan them, or would they have to be officially donated? And if so, would they likely be destroyed to study or just kept in a library somewhere? Could I go and visit them or receive updates on their study? I'm not even in college yet, but planning to attend an Art School, and moving on to study Paleontology either after or if I don't enjoy Art School. I've volunteered a bit at a College cataloging fossils, and looking to do more volunteering and learning fossil preparation this summer. 

How do you guys reason with this with your own collections? Is it even ethical to own fossils at all? I'm curious to hear different opinions. 

[FranzBernhard]

Simple things first:

50 minutes ago, DarasFossils said:

but there's a few I feel might be better suited in a place where they can be studied by actual scientists.

Would you like to show them off here? So much knowledgeable members here from various fields, which can roughly judge the scientific values of fossil specimens.

Franz Bernhard

[Ludwigia]

Of course it's ethical to own fossils as long as they haven't been taken from a protected site without permission. The overwhelming majority of fossils in private collections are common enough not to be of any great interest to the scientific community, but with time and experience, a collector can learn what may be of interest to them and therefore be willing to donate, or at least lend samples for study. I would suggest that the first thing for you to do in this context is to establish contact with professionals and experienced collectors in your area in order to learn more about the subject and have your own collection assessed. Check out if there is a fossil club and/or a natural history museum or university faculty near you.

[Misha]

Ethics of owning fossils is a difficult and subjective conversation, I personally feel that owning fossils is ethical as long as you are not actively keeping new scientific knowledge from being gained through studying them. After all, most of the fossils that we collect are small, numerous, not scientifically significant creatures that if it weren't for us would be destroyed by the elements and human activity. Construction projects destroy far more fossils than any collector could keep in their collection and thus permanently stopping them from being studied. But ultimately this is something everyone has a different opinion on, so you should think about it yourself and come to your own conclusion.

As for the fossils you have you are considering may be scientifically important, do remember that even if undescribed, some specimens are just not going to be worth the time, and resources to research for a lot of scientists, but you could certainly look for experts on those specific types of fossils here on TFF, local museum or University and reach out to them through email, showing them the specimen and asking their opinion. They could then help you figure out the significance of the piece, and if there's anything you need to do from there.

[Kikokuryu]

8 hours ago, DarasFossils said:

How do you guys reason with this with your own collections? Is it even ethical to own fossils at all? I'm curious to hear different opinions. 

First things first. I am a collector who has hundreds of vertebrate fossils like dinosaurs, and regularly purchases fossils, so there will be biases here. I think it's important to know what relation someone has to the subject in order to understand the argument being made.

 

Now, ethics I feel depend on how you interpret the unethical part. Are fossil collections unethical because science loses out on significant finds, or is it unethical solely on the principals of commercializing and owning something of historic value being inherently bad. There's a lot of in-between and nuances, and of course extreme views on both sides. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here.

 

I think the former is more common, in which, many (not all) private collectors and landowners do try to work with museums to get the right specimens in public institutions. In this case, arguments like fossils being lost to erosion and construction are good defensive arguments. Paleontologists generally aren't after want what collectors want, i.e. isolated teeth, claws, verts. It's niche partitioning in a way. And if they do need them, they are not exactly weighed with the same caliber as a Tyrannosaurus skeleton. A museum can easily acquire anything most collectors can obtain and more. Most of the conflict stems from wealthy buyers out-competing museums at a scale that’s basically another universe for a normal collector.

 

Now, if the question of ethics come from the perspective of, the commercialization of history is morally wrong or dubious, then the loss to erosion argument probably won’t land because the argument is not about saving fossils, but rather, to stop commercializing natural heritage. Cambrian deposits often do get this sort of treatment as being so important that they get World Heritage Site status. Some people have strong opinions on such sites, but I'm not familiar enough to comment on the pros and cons.

 

As far as my personal opinion goes. I’m failing to understand what exactly is the end goal of those who want to protect fossils by using private collectors as the big bad arch-nemesis. It’s not like banning private collections will magically shift all of the funds into paleontology for endless digs, more employees, more papers published, and warehouses filled with fossils. These big auctions, disagreeable or not are not why museums can’t get any T. rex specimens; it’s because they don’t have a truck ton of cash and human resources to find one themselves. Ban the sale of big fossils, well, museums still don’t find anything because the money and people problem didn’t get solved. Museums being underfunded and understaffed is not an issue related to private collecting. What exactly gets accomplished, a moral victory? Then what? A bit of a rant, but that’s a gist of what I think of the whole thing.

 

8 hours ago, DarasFossils said:

I'm also concerned since I've read about how fossil poaching can impact scientists' studies of a specific locality and that really bothers me if I've at all contributed to that.

In regards to poaching, while you do have dubious material (may or may not be smuggled, aka old collection) occasionally pop up on the open market, you clearly don’t see the blatantly smuggled main prizes like Brazilian pterosaurs or dinosaurs which we know is a huge problem shown in news headlines when one of them gets caught. The target buyers for that stuff is not really relevant to the general hobbyist, especially when whoever is buying this stuff has no qualms about pterosaur slabs being cutup into smaller pieces for easy transport. Ever since the horribly botched Tarbosaurus incident, I doubt smugglers are going to be selling any major pieces at auction. If fossils were banned worldwide tomorrow, nothing would really change on that front.

 

Now, I think collectors should be wary of isolated pieces from highly poached areas. A Tarbosaurus tooth could pass off as old collection, but we don't know if a skull was smashed up to obtain said tooth. The easy thing to do here is, just don't buy something that's too good to be true. That doesn't mean that all old collections should be off-limits, but just have an open eye knowing that there might be some shady stuff going on, like a Tarbosaurus from Kazakhstan.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Kikokuryu

[DarasFossils]

2 hours ago, Kikokuryu said:

First things first. I am a collector who has hundreds of vertebrate fossils like dinosaurs, and regularly purchases fossils, so there will be biases here. I think it's important to know what relation someone has to the subject in order to understand the argument being made.

 

Now, ethics I feel depend on how you interpret the unethical part. Are fossil collections unethical because science loses out on significant finds, or is it unethical solely on the principals of commercializing and owning something of historic value being inherently bad. There's a lot of in-between and nuances, and of course extreme views on both sides. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here.

 

I think the former is more common, in which, many (not all) private collectors and landowners do try to work with museums to get the right specimens in public institutions. In this case, arguments like fossils being lost to erosion and construction are good defensive arguments. Paleontologists generally aren't after want what collectors want, i.e. isolated teeth, claws, verts. It's niche partitioning in a way. And if they do need them, they are not exactly weighed with the same caliber as a Tyrannosaurus skeleton. A museum can easily acquire anything most collectors can obtain and more. Most of the conflict stems from wealthy buyers out-competing museums at a scale that’s basically another universe for a normal collector.

 

Now, if the question of ethics come from the perspective of, the commercialization of history is morally wrong or dubious, then the loss to erosion argument probably won’t land because the argument is not about saving fossils, but rather, to stop commercializing natural heritage. Cambrian deposits often do get this sort of treatment as being so important that they get World Heritage Site status. Some people have strong opinions on such sites, but I'm not familiar enough to comment on the pros and cons.

 

As far as my personal opinion goes. I’m failing to understand what exactly is the end goal of those who want to protect fossils by using private collectors as the big bad arch-nemesis. It’s not like banning private collections will magically shift all of the funds into paleontology for endless digs, more employees, more papers published, and warehouses filled with fossils. These big auctions, disagreeable or not are not why museums can’t get any T. rex specimens; it’s because they don’t have a truck ton of cash and human resources to find one themselves. Ban the sale of big fossils, well, museums still don’t find anything because the money and people problem didn’t get solved. Museums being underfunded and understaffed is not an issue related to private collecting. What exactly gets accomplished, a moral victory? Then what? A bit of a rant, but that’s a gist of what I think of the whole thing.

 

In regards to poaching, while you do have dubious material (may or may not be smuggled, aka old collection) occasionally pop up on the open market, you clearly don’t see the blatantly smuggled main prizes like Brazilian pterosaurs or dinosaurs which we know is a huge problem shown in news headlines when one of them gets caught. The target buyers for that stuff is not really relevant to the general hobbyist, especially when whoever is buying this stuff has no qualms about pterosaur slabs being cutup into smaller pieces for easy transport. Ever since the horribly botched Tarbosaurus incident, I doubt smugglers are going to be selling any major pieces at auction. If fossils were banned worldwide tomorrow, nothing would really change on that front.

 

Now, I think collectors should be wary of isolated pieces from highly poached areas. A Tarbosaurus tooth could pass off as old collection, but we don't know if a skull was smashed up to obtain said tooth. The easy thing to do here is, just don't buy something that's too good to be true. That doesn't mean that all old collections should be off-limits, but just have an open eye knowing that there might be some shady stuff going on, like a Tarbosaurus from Kazakhstan.

Thank you so much for the thoughtful responses. I found it informative that you said that the specimens that scientists and collectors want essentially self filter. A flying spiny trilobite isn't something I think most scientists would be interested in, but collectors absolutely love them. In regards to what fossils I was referring to in my own collection I was concerned about, I recently bought a White Sea Ediacaran piece, without the knowledge that it was most likely illegally poached, which I learned after I bought it by reading about it. I knew that about Austrailian and Canadian Ediacaran, but to be honest, I hadn't heard of the White Sea Assemblage before so I assumed it was kind of a dream come true, I've always wanted to own or at least see an Ediacaran fossil but I thought I would have to fly to Australia or Canada. Definitely a too-good-to-be-true scenario, I probably should have known. It's a smallish plate of Pseudorhizostomites, I'd like to post a picture but I am not sure if that would be allowed. And unfortunately, though the Australian and Canadian sites do have World Heritage site status, the White Sea does not, so it makes it easier for people to steal from there. I think this time period is so interesting, and I want scientists to be able to study it more, so I feel so terrible that I might have taken something that was gathered unethically. I'm going to try and donate it to a College I know but I am worried they won't want to take it due to where it is from. 

 

Out of my other fossils, I have a pretty typical collection, but two pretty cool pieces of trilobites with preserved antennae from the Fezouata Formation, I don't know if those are appropriate to own either, but I think they are fairly common from what I've seen. The species I don't see much information on are a few specific trilobite species, specific crinoid species, gastropod species etc. But like you said, they seem pretty common and maybe not worth intense study. In Tucson though, I saw some pretty blatantly sketchy stuff being sold, like Brazilian insects, Burmese Amber, Chinese fossils etc. I'm not sure how they get away with it, but most of the items were relatively small, no crazy full skeletons or anything like that. 

Honestly, through collecting fossils I've learned so much, and it's actually made me want to go into Paleontology more, because I realize it's not as complicated to point out morphological features or categorize things as I thought, especially when you are holding them in your hand. I've learned so much about trilobites I probably could never learn from the internet and a ton about all sorts of other life. So in that sense, I am happy I am able to learn this way.  

Edited January 31, 2023 by DarasFossils

[FranzBernhard]

12 minutes ago, DarasFossils said:

I'd like to post a picture but I am not sure if that would be allowed. And unfortunately, though the Australian and Canadian sites do have World Heritage site status, the White Sea does not, so it makes it easier for people to steal from there. I think this time period is so interesting, and I want scientists to be able to study it more, so I feel so terrible that I might have taken something that was gathered unethically. I'm going to try and donate it to a College I know but I am worried they won't want to take it due to where it is from. 

Quite many White Sea fossils have been posted here lately.

I don´t think donating such a fossil to a more or less random College is a good idea. You may consider it donating to an institution or a scientist that is actively working on these type of fossils.

Franz Bernhard

Edited January 31, 2023 by FranzBernhard

[jpc]

about donating... always ask a museum if they are interested.  Museum folks (like me) prefer to hear "are you interested in this belemnite?" rather than " I want to donate this belemnite"  (note: we have too many baculites).  There are different levels, if you will, of museums.  Some do research, for example, and others don't.  A research institute might not be interested but they may know someone out there who would be interested.  As for making things available to science...while this is a noble goal, the flip side is making things available to public education.  Your local museum may be interested in something with no desire to research it, but excited to put it on display for education.  On that note, when you donate to a museum, if they put it on display, consider yourself lucky.  Most donations do not go on display, and museums frown on donations that come with the words "It must go on display".      

[DarasFossils]

1 hour ago, jpc said:

about donating... always ask a museum if they are interested.  Museum folks (like me) prefer to hear "are you interested in this belemnite?" rather than " I want to donate this belemnite"  (note: we have too many baculites).  There are different levels, if you will, of museums.  Some do research, for example, and others don't.  A research institute might not be interested but they may know someone out there who would be interested.  As for making things available to science...while this is a noble goal, the flip side is making things available to public education.  Your local museum may be interested in something with no desire to research it, but excited to put it on display for education.  On that note, when you donate to a museum, if they put it on display, consider yourself lucky.  Most donations do not go on display, and museums frown on donations that come with the words "It must go on display".      

That is what I wanted to say. I volunteered at the College in Montana and I wanted to email the paleontologist there if they'd like to take it or at least know someone who would, because I realized just bringing it next time I volunteered and giving it to them might not be the best route. Funny enough, they said they have too many baculites there as well lol, I will definitely be keeping the two I have, but I used to think they were 'rare' because the Wikipedia page for them is quite short and I don't see them sold online that often. And yes, I would love if it went on display but I totally understand how annoying that would be as a request. There's a Natural History Museum in my area (I go to Montana for the summer) but I think they mostly focus on local species, and with it being in California, it's almost entirely Ice Age stuff and things that are still alive in the present day. But maybe something like this is just what they would want. 

[DarasFossils]

2 hours ago, FranzBernhard said:

Quite many White Sea fossils have been posted here lately.

I don´t think donating such a fossil to a more or less random College is a good idea. You may consider it donating to an institution or a scientist that is actively working on these type of fossils.

Franz Bernhard

I wonder why that is happening, I saw an old paper from over 10 years ago saying that they are all supposed to go to the Museum in Moscow but I don't really feel comfortable just sending it there... Maybe I can get in contact with someone who knows that museum or something like that. I don't speak the language at all and I'm pretty uncomfortable with Russia's behavior recently like most people. Of course I want to preserve their natural history though, just like everywhere, so if that ends up being the best home for it, I would understand. 

[Pliosaur]

@DarasFossils Another great way to contribute would be to post your fossils to the "collections" section of this forum, in this way it can provide useful information about distinctive specimens that you may have so everyone can see them. 

 

From collections: 

 

"The amateur community has always played a vital role in the science of paleontology.  That impact cannot be overstated.  As an example, our members have donated countless significant fossils for academic study.  Some of these fossils were determined to be undescribed, new species; others added new knowledge of unknown morphology or distribution.  Odds are, many of us have very important specimens within our collections, and we may not realize it.  So, if you have good, focused images of specimens that exhibit defining characteristics, we hope you add to this archive and contribute to our mutual understanding of the past."

 

Please contact @sixgill pete to help you get started in documenting your important fossils 

Hope this helps!