DarasFossils Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Hello, My Dad and I purchased a really beautiful Solnhofen dragonfly resembling something very similar to this (not my picture), which has these really prominent eyes and legs on it. Is this naturally preserved or likely painted on, and if so, does this affect the quality and value? Seller is reputable and I know paint is common with the Solnhofen just so you can see them for display which I don't mind but just curious what is likely real and what is not... Ours is a big boy at over 7". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 I would assume this is a negativ, colored. Not sure about the cerci, think they are not real. The body does not have structure, the wings nervature does not look like the one shown on the pic. The eyes..., wonderful , not real. If its cheap its a display-piece, negative with color. If it is expensive, wait and buy another one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 some pics of the normal way of preservation to compare wings and body all could be better prepped. There is a nice website in germany about the solnhofen-fossils, if you like to check Die Fossilien von Solnhofen (solnhofen-fossilienatlas.de) the dragonflies Libellen (Odonata) - Die Fossilien von Solnhofen (solnhofen-fossilienatlas.de) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Looks like lots of paint was used on that specimen. You should post the images of your specimen so we can comment on it. Athough we do not do valuations they can be significantly affected by their quality/paint. Sellers may not always appreciate the amount of paint used or may not be forward with that information 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 I'm not saying they are, but the wings looked painted/stained? RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, RJB said: I'm not saying they are, but the wings looked painted/stained? RB Yes the whole thing is painted, but it isn't the OP's specimen. They really need to post a photo of their item. 2 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob86795 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Do you know which quarry it came from? There are a lot of variations of color/quality in the limestone at Solnhoffen. The image you provided does seem to be stained and not complete. A way to check it it authentic is running a finger along the stone and then the wings you would feel smooth impressions versus rough stone. One other way is to use a UV/black light and shine it on the wings, If they glow green/yellow then it is real. However I have found in the past a dragonfly fossil from Solnhoffen which did have a prominent yellowish color to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 I don't have much experience with Solnhoffen Dragonflies. But I would treat an insect not showing body segments and wing venation with caution. MotM August 2023 - Eclectic Collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarasFossils Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Fossildude19 said: Yes the whole thing is painted, but it isn't the OP's specimen. They really need to post a photo of their item. Here is a photo from the listing of mine. It's a gift for my mom so it's currently packaged away still but my Dad and I took a quick look at it last night and that's what got me curious. But the body is raised like a normal specimen. Edited February 28, 2023 by DarasFossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarasFossils Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Troodon said: Looks like lots of paint was used on that specimen. You should post the images of your specimen so we can comment on it. Athough we do not do valuations they can be significantly affected by their quality/paint. Sellers may not always appreciate the amount of paint used or may not be forward with that information Thanks for letting me know, I just posted an image above. I can post my own image once it's unwrapped but it's planned to be a gift. My Dad and I were obviously most excited by the size more than anything. Seller says we can send it back if we don't like it. Edited February 28, 2023 by DarasFossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Others more familiar with these deposits will comment but I would need sharper, brighter photo to make a constructive comment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarasFossils Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Troodon said: Others more familiar with these deposits will comment but I would need sharper, brighter photo to make a constructive comment. Oh shoot, that one is bad. Here's a better one. I suspect legs are painted but the rest to me looks real. Correct me if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Research the Crato dragonflies if you want a specimen without the inherent paint/varnish issues associated with the Solnhofen insect fossils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarasFossils Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, piranha said: Research the Crato dragonflies if you want a specimen without the inherent paint/varnish issues associated with the Solnhofen insect fossils. Thank you, I personally do like those, but my Dad wanted a bigger one. Are there any 6+ inch ones in other formations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Antennas and legs are painted. I think the wings are at a minimum outlined and possibly highlighted. Let's see what others say. I agree with piranha, the Crato specimens I've seen are spectacular and some are naturally colorful, most are small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 This one isn't bad, @DarasFossils. This appears tinted to show it off better. Yes, legs, antennae and eyes look painted on, but the rest of it does not look bad at all. 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarasFossils Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said: This one isn't bad, @DarasFossils. This appears tinted to show it off better. Yes, legs, antennae and eyes look painted on, but the rest of it does not look bad at all. Oh my gosh thank you. My Dad and I love it but of course I was suspicious knowing what I know about fossils. But we decided size is the most important factor when choosing the Dragonfly. I'll send him this thread and we'll decide. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said: legs, antennae and eyes look painted on I am not entirely comfortable with the preservation of the abdomen; looks a bit touched-up. It is otherwise a terrific specimen of an iconic fossil! 1 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotalker Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 22 minutes ago, Auspex said: I am not entirely comfortable with the preservation of the abdomen; I agree with this. There should be some sign of segmentation in the abdomen. Perhaps there is but I can't see it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob86795 Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 16 hours ago, DarasFossils said: Oh shoot, that one is bad. Here's a better one. I suspect legs are painted but the rest to me looks real. Correct me if I am wrong. The antenna are painted and not real. However not all of the legs are fake just partial. It seems just some paint has been used to touch up the ends of the legs. If you look closely the legs on the left side are very pale and are likely fake. The right side seems to have areas that contain real legs but are partial and have been painted so that they look complete. As with the thorax, there is segmentation and there is just faint traces of matrix covering it in some edges. Compared it to other dragonfly's I have found that are in my collection and the one you have shown ,apart from some minor details, looks real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadrosauridae Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) IF you want to knw for sure, you should use UV light photography. I just saw a fabulous presentation by Mike Eklund on the use of using UV-A, UV-B and UV-C with long exposure photography to show what is original and what is glue or paint. You can even see most paints with a plain long-wave "black light" but its not as diagnostic as with true dedicated UV lights. Edited March 1, 2023 by hadrosauridae "There is no shortage of fossils. There is only a shortage of paleontologists to study them." - Larry Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 18 hours ago, hadrosauridae said: IF you want to knw for sure, you should use UV light photography. I just saw a fabulous presentation by Mike Eklund on the use of using UV-A, UV-B and UV-C with long exposure photography to show what is original and what is glue or paint. You can even see most paints with a plain long-wave "black light" but its not as diagnostic as with true dedicated UV lights. what you will see at the slab with the dragonfly is: the lasure with the new pics I think the dragonfly is o.k., not the best but o.k.. With lasure on it and some paint. But, now I can see the venation Legs, antenna, one or both eyes are colored (perhaps one eye and one leg are original but overpainted) With the cercy we can say it´s a male 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 I show a pic of a dragonfly-wing-end You see fine structures at the end and lasure on it. Bit away from the tip you see only lasure (it is one the wing, wing is preserved). This is what you could get with luck, normally the wing finestructures are not so good preserved at the solnhofen-dragonflies 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 On 2/28/2023 at 2:58 PM, jacob86795 said: Do you know which quarry it came from? There are a lot of variations of color/quality in the limestone at Solnhoffen. The image you provided does seem to be stained and not complete. A way to check it it authentic is running a finger along the stone and then the wings you would feel smooth impressions versus rough stone. One other way is to use a UV/black light and shine it on the wings, If they glow green/yellow then it is real. However I have found in the past a dragonfly fossil from Solnhoffen which did have a prominent yellowish color to it. could work, most of the dragonflies are stabile enough to try like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) On 2/28/2023 at 6:13 PM, piranha said: Research the Crato dragonflies if you want a specimen without the inherent paint/varnish issues associated with the Solnhofen insect fossils. not all are perfect..., there are some fakes on the market... but, in general the crato dragonflies are definitely the best to get one of the really best one Edited March 2, 2023 by rocket 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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