Absurdly Curious Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Woo-hoo! Here goes my first one! I never knew taking photos of tiny, inanimate objects would be so hard!! These are awful and I'm not pleased. I will get better ones if I need to, but I'm curious to see if this is an easy one and no further photos are needed. Ok so these were found roughly a year apart (early 2000s) in the same creek in north-central Tennessee. Not a clue as to the layers or geology. They feel sand-stony, the larger one is rougher. The larger one also has a glob of matrix on (what I'm calling) the bottom with tiny crinoid segments stuck in it. I've been searching online for over a month to find something similar, initially thought crinoid parts, because of the crinoid-looking center in the small one, but I don't find any tri-radial crinoids, only 5-radial (however you say that, haha). The closest I can find to its shape is a pollen spore... oh my, imagine the size of the bees! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Your pictures are actually quite good. They just need to be cropped and contrasted a bit. These look like crinoid cups/calyices, to me. I believe that Echinoderms can have 5 or 6 sided morphology. I see 6 sides in yours - 2 1 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandpa Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 I think "crinoid" is a good assumption on your part. These look to me like the basal plates of a crinoid cup showing the stem attachment (round central feature). Others may be able to ID genus and possibly species for you. By the way, how are you fairing in meeting the group? Wasn't I right that its a great group of folks? Can I freshen your drink or get you any refills on the refreshments? This party goes on forever. As to your earlier question regarding "how much is too much?", I am reminded of a day when a friend and I were hunting Salenia echinoids in Central Texas. We'd each call out when we found one. After some time, and great success on both our parts, I asked my hunting buddy "How many of these do we need?" His answer: "As many as there are". [We can discuss the ethics of that statement at a later date (in fact the forum has had discussions in this regard), but I think the spirit of his statement speaks to your question - there is no such concept as "enough" when it comes to avid hunters- not that there shouldn't be!] 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absurdly Curious Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 Thanks so much! Yes this group is supercool, I've read a bunch and the respectful responses made me brave enough to sign up and post. So thank all of you for that! And I can see how cropping helps, though I'll have to ask a random 11-year old about the contrast haha. Anyway, i was pretty sure the following were crinoid c, they're very different from my original two, are they different species, or am I mistaken? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandpa Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Crinoid cups, yes. Genus and species? Still awaiting the experts to weigh in. Think I saw a couple by the pool in back. Maybe this will get their attention. Freshen up your drink? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absurdly Curious Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 Oh and by the way, @fossildude19, thanks for the clarification on the sides. I had considered that three was actually 6, but I couldn't get past the 3 radial lines on the bottom of the small one. So I'm actually pretty gratified that you showed me that! Also, with all the study of crinoids I've done over the last few weeks, I haven't found any crinoid parts that bulb out like that. I'll search basal plate, crinoid cup and hopefully find more images. This is so exciting! And @grandpa, this sweet iced tea is the best! Thanks for the hospitality! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fin Lover Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 For some reason, it looks like your @ didn't work, so I was going to do them here for you, but they aren't working now for me, either. 1 Fin Lover My favorite things about fossil hunting: getting out of my own head, getting into nature and, if I’m lucky, finding some cool souvenirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fin Lover Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) @Fossildude19 @grandpa Please see above. There we go...now it is working. If you see the black background around it, then you know it worked. Edited June 1, 2023 by Fin Lover 1 1 Fin Lover My favorite things about fossil hunting: getting out of my own head, getting into nature and, if I’m lucky, finding some cool souvenirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandpa Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 20 minutes ago, Absurdly Curious said: @grandpa, this sweet iced tea is the best! Thanks for the hospitality Nothing like the sweet TEXAS iced tea! Glad you enjoy it. But watch out for our NY members who may offer you NY Iced Tea. That's a totally different drink! Can I freshen your drink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absurdly Curious Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 Yes, please! I used to wait tables and I'll never forget asking a tourist couple if they would like to start with a sweet tea or something from the bar; she looked confused and said, "what's SWEET tea?" My beverage paradigm came crashing around me as I realized that wasn't an american thing, just a southern thing... oh, and my parents are from Texas. I grew up in TN but I was raised Texan. I digress. @Fin Lover OH ok, so I type it and a selection pops up, got it. Yes it definitely did not do that last time and I was hoping it would do it when I sent the post, but it didn't. I was actually trying to look that up when you read my mind so thank you! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandpa Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 25 minutes ago, Absurdly Curious said: oh, and my parents are from Texas. I grew up in TN but I was raised Texan. Gotta love that. Also, it takes a true Southern raised Gal to appreciate the term "Sweet Tea" in its true Southern sense. (Excuse any culturally inferred offenses that are not in any way intended.) Having said that, I have to admit a fondness for New York Iced Tea and Wisconsin Iced Tea as well - shout out to my New York and Wisconsin friends. Aw, heck, shout out to all my friends on TFF. You are a wonderful group of folks regardless of your favorite party drink! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fin Lover Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 37 minutes ago, Absurdly Curious said: @Fin Lover OH ok, so I type it and a selection pops up, got it. Yes it definitely did not do that last time and I was hoping it would do it when I sent the post, but it didn't. I was actually trying to look that up when you read my mind so thank you! It took me quite a while to figure it out. I still have issues with it every once in a while, although I can usually just delete it and start over and get it to work. I don't know what happened earlier because I started over several times and it wouldn't work. Probably user error. Fin Lover My favorite things about fossil hunting: getting out of my own head, getting into nature and, if I’m lucky, finding some cool souvenirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilNerd Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Glad to see you posting @Absurdly Curious! I love your name by the way. I think most of us here are fueled by our curiosity. Maybe even absurdly so. I would agree with crinoid cups/calyx basal plates. I find a lot of similar ones (especially the second specimen you posted) in the Carboniferous rock here. I can’t get more specific than that with the information given, but if you know a more exact location we might be able to narrow down a genus. It doesn’t have to be too exact, a nearby town or even county may do. 1 The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. -Neil deGrasse Tyson Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mochaccino Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) These do seem like crinoid calyx parts to me. Your first two specimens seem like infrabasal plates. 6 hours ago, Absurdly Curious said: I don't find any tri-radial crinoids, only 5-radial While pentaradial symmetry generally holds true, I believe in monobathrid (monocyclic) camerate crinoids the infrabasal plates (the lowermost plates where the stem attaches) commonly occur as three similarly-sized plates. See an example below of an Eretmocrinus granuliferus from the Mississippian of Indiana, which shows a circlet of three big plates where the stem attaches. Some other camerates that show this configuration are Cactocrinus and Dorycrinus. So we can at least guess that your first two specimens are probably monobathrid camerates. Your last two specimens are also crinoids, and I believe they are the infrabasal+basal plates. In this case it looks like the infrabasals fused into one big plate. This is a trend seen in cladids (dicyclic) and disparids (monocyclic), and since your specimens seem to have both infrabasal and basal plates I would guess they are from some sort of cladid crinoid. Unfortunately that's about as far as I can go regarding ID as I am not familiar with the age or fauna of the locality you found these crinoids at. Hope that helps. Edited June 2, 2023 by Mochaccino 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mochaccino Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 @crinus @TheInvertebrateGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absurdly Curious Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 @FossilNerd @Mochaccino Thanks so much! And my level of curiosity most definitely qualifies as absurd... ask my family! They're like, "YES MOM THATS COOL" "YES MOM IT DOES LOOK BETTER WET" "NO MOM I DO NOT WANT TO SEE IF IT STICKS TO MY TONGUE" "HONEY ITS 3 AM ARE YOU STILL PLAYING WITH YOUR ROCKS" And thanks so much for the image! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patelinho7 Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Somewhat unrelated but since you bring up sweet/iced tea, Arnold Palmers (popular half-sweet tea half-lemonade for non-Americans) are probably my favorite “tea” category drink! They’re just so great! I love finding unique flavor combinations to talk about. Cold, sweet, sour, lightly bitter, a little caffeinated, just perfect. It’s like honey mustard. Man, I could go on and on about honey mustard. Such a versatile condiment. I love honey mustard. Anywho… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandpa Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Jalapeno Chocolates! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilNerd Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 21 hours ago, Absurdly Curious said: @FossilNerd @Mochaccino Thanks so much! And my level of curiosity most definitely qualifies as absurd... ask my family! They're like, "YES MOM THATS COOL" "YES MOM IT DOES LOOK BETTER WET" "NO MOM I DO NOT WANT TO SEE IF IT STICKS TO MY TONGUE" "HONEY ITS 3 AM ARE YOU STILL PLAYING WITH YOUR ROCKS" And thanks so much for the image! Ha! I do this exact same thing to my kids and wife. Maybe I’m just as absurdly curious as you are! Nah… the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. I don’t want to recover so I won’t admit I have a problem! 1 1 The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. -Neil deGrasse Tyson Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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