Getting Started Fossil Hunting In Kansas

[fossil man]

I will be moving to north central oklahoma in a month and being that close i am hoping to do some fossil hunting in Kansas. I would really love to find some shark teeth, get a chance at niabria formation(hope i spelled that close), but i would be happy with anything. As far as getting acess to private lands, has it all been leased (if so what does a lease go for), is it still possible to get on to private lands. Are there any fossil clubs that would be possible to get in on a couple hunting trips. What are good formations to for. Are there any sites that are kind of general knowledge like post oak creek in texas. I am really out of my element here and any information would be much appreciated. If any one in kansas would like a tag along just hit me up, it would be much appreciated, i could offer some texas information. Thanks for all advice.

Lloyd

[Xiphactinus]

Fossil Man -

I used to live in South Central Kansas....You will be sitting in a Permian area that hasn't really been studied that much. There is the possibility of making some significant Permian discoveries if you work at it. For more immediate satisfaction, check gravel bars in the larger rivers/creeks in the area. The Arkansas River has a lot of Pleistocene fossils in it.

The Niobrara Chalk is mostly tied up in private hands of ranchers. My suggestion would be to find some land maps with owners names and start making some calls. If you want a guided hunt, the Keystone Gallery is run by a legendary family of Kansas fossil hunters and offer trips out into the chalk.

http://www.keystonegallery.com/fossils/fossil_hunts/index.html

[Boneman007]

As a person who has spent a lot of time in the Niobrara formation of western Kansas, I can tell you it is becoming very difficult to go hunting in this formation. Most of the ranches I once hunted are now being leased to professional hunters for sale on websites.

Here's the scoop:

1. get a geologic survey of western KS. I will not give you specifics as that information must be earned the hard way. Ill give you a hint though, start looking around Quinter,KS.

2. Once you locate the formation, start driving around looking for exposed chalk. It can be yellow or grey.

3. Once you find the exposed chaulk, locate the farm house. Ask the owner for permission. Do not be upset when they say no.

4. You will get more access if you agree to donate any significant fossils to the Sternberg museum. I have been lucky enough to make a number of significant donations to the museum myself.

5. Keep the "junk". This can include partial xiphactinus, partial mosasaurs, as well as many fishes of the western interior seaway. Most of the material will be articulated due to the extreme depth of the ocean. Very large Cretoxyrhina are common. Shark dentitions are possible. Familiarize yourself with the shark species Ptychodus.

6. Remember. If you are going to hop fences, prepare to be greeted at gun point by the owner. These guys are serious about tresspassers.

7. The wildlife people release 500 mountain loins a year in this area as well as 5000 bobcats. There are rattlesnakes everywhere and wolverines (I had a wolverine attack my 4X4 once).

And lastly, the law states that if there is no gate, and is not posted (posted, no tresspassing, etc) it is legal to go on the land. That said, you are taking a big chance if you get caught. This area is sort of like the wild west, and the land owner is always right when it comes to the law.

Be aware that the sage roots will encapsulate shark teeth. If you find a dentition near a sage plant, break open the roots. You may be surprised! If you find multiple fossils (ie vertebrae) dig all around the area. You will probably find a lot more of the fossil buried

If you do find something significant, be sure to contact the Sternberg museum for assistance in getting it out. I know of a complete shark that required 2100 lbs. of plaster to remove (and a tractor, and a flatbed truck, etc.)

This area can be very rewarding. But it takes a lot of hiking and looking. We use chainsaws to remove the larger items.

Good Luck!

[Ramo]

7. The wildlife people release 500 mountain loins a year in this area as well as 5000 bobcats. There are rattlesnakes everywhere and wolverines (I had a wolverine attack my 4X4 once).

And lastly, the law states that if there is no gate, and is not posted (posted, no tresspassing, etc) it is legal to go on the land. That said, you are taking a big chance if you get caught. This area is sort of like the wild west, and the land owner is always right when it comes to the law.

Everything you posted looks good, but I'm not too sure about these two statements.

 

I'm 100% POSITIVE you need permission, even if it isn't posted.

Ramo

[Frank Menser]

[quote

5. Keep the "junk". This can include partial xiphactinus, partial mosasaurs, as well as many fishes of the western interior seaway. Most of the material will be articulated due to the extreme depth of the ocean. Very large Cretoxyrhina are common.

7. The wildlife people release 500 mountain loins a year in this area as well as 5000 bobcats. There are rattlesnakes everywhere

Partial Mos = "Junk?" And snakes too? I am officially jealous

[Xiphactinus]

7. The wildlife people release 500 mountain loins a year in this area as well as 5000 bobcats. There are rattlesnakes everywhere and wolverines (I had a wolverine attack my 4X4 once).

And lastly, the law states that if there is no gate, and is not posted (posted, no tresspassing, etc) it is legal to go on the land. That said, you are taking a big chance if you get caught. This area is sort of like the wild west, and the land owner is always right when it comes to the law.

Everything you posted looks good, but I'm not too sure about these two statements. I'm 100% POSITIVE you need permission, even if it isn't posted.

Ramo

Agreed, Ramo - You need permission, posted or not.

They do not release mountain lions and bobcats. There were only 2 sightings of lions in Kansas last year. One had a radio tracker and he was a lonely misplaced Colorado lion looking for a lady.

Otherwise, pretty spot on.

[Auspex]

They do not release mountain lions and bobcats...

Kansas has no Wolverines either (lots of Badgers though).

[jason longboard]

As a person who has spent a lot of time in the Niobrara formation of western Kansas, I can tell you it is becoming very difficult to go hunting in this formation. Most of the ranches I once hunted are now being leased to professional hunters for sale on websites.

Here's the scoop:

1. get a geologic survey of western KS. I will not give you specifics as that information must be earned the hard way. Ill give you a hint though, start looking around Quinter,KS.

2. Once you locate the formation, start driving around looking for exposed chalk. It can be yellow or grey.

3. Once you find the exposed chaulk, locate the farm house. Ask the owner for permission. Do not be upset when they say no.

4. You will get more access if you agree to donate any significant fossils to the Sternberg museum. I have been lucky enough to make a number of significant donations to the museum myself.

5. Keep the "junk". This can include partial xiphactinus, partial mosasaurs, as well as many fishes of the western interior seaway. Most of the material will be articulated due to the extreme depth of the ocean. Very large Cretoxyrhina are common. Shark dentitions are possible. Familiarize yourself with the shark species Ptychodus.

6. Remember. If you are going to hop fences, prepare to be greeted at gun point by the owner. These guys are serious about tresspassers.

7. The wildlife people release 500 mountain loins a year in this area as well as 5000 bobcats. There are rattlesnakes everywhere and wolverines (I had a wolverine attack my 4X4 once).

And lastly, the law states that if there is no gate, and is not posted (posted, no tresspassing, etc) it is legal to go on the land. That said, you are taking a big chance if you get caught. This area is sort of like the wild west, and the land owner is always right when it comes to the law.

Be aware that the sage roots will encapsulate shark teeth. If you find a dentition near a sage plant, break open the roots. You may be surprised! If you find multiple fossils (ie vertebrae) dig all around the area. You will probably find a lot more of the fossil buried

If you do find something significant, be sure to contact the Sternberg museum for assistance in getting it out. I know of a complete shark that required 2100 lbs. of plaster to remove (and a tractor, and a flatbed truck, etc.)

This area can be very rewarding. But it takes a lot of hiking and looking. We use chainsaws to remove the larger items.

Good Luck!

Holy snarge this is an interesting post, sounds like a blast lol.

[Ramo]

BADGERS? We don't need no stinking BADGERS.

[jpc]

Badgers... I love these furry little bundles of pissedoffitude. Saw one just the other day in eastern WY. This was an hour after the rancher said to us... "Yup, its that time of year.. the baders are digging up the roads" we of course didn't beleive her. Why would badgers dig onto hard packed dirt roads in August. An hour later, there he was digging in the darn road.

Anyway, a lot of what boneman007 said about KS hunting is true here is Wyoming.

[Nandomas]

Are the badgers so nasty? I never meet one... I assumed they were good guys (as the most part of wildlife).

I should like to know more about badgers/fossil hunters close encounters...

I like so much to hear this kind of stories

[Boneman007]

Partial Mos = "Junk?" And snakes too? I am officially jealous

I was being silly with the "Junk" statement. I heard a museum person refer to these types of fossils as junk. I couldn't believe it!

[Boneman007]

7. The wildlife people release 500 mountain loins a year in this area as well as 5000 bobcats. There are rattlesnakes everywhere and wolverines (I had a wolverine attack my 4X4 once).

And lastly, the law states that if there is no gate, and is not posted (posted, no tresspassing, etc) it is legal to go on the land. That said, you are taking a big chance if you get caught. This area is sort of like the wild west, and the land owner is always right when it comes to the law.

Everything you posted looks good, but I'm not too sure about these two statements. I'm 100% POSITIVE you need permission, even if it isn't posted.

Ramo

As far as the released animals, I think they just replenish the animals that are killed by the ranchers every year. I have seen a lot of lion tracks, but never an actual animal.

According to one rancher, a single mountain lion will eat something like 50 calves a year. Needless to say that takes a "bite" out of their profits!

[Boneman007]

One last addition. For those who haven't seen this yet, here's a picture of one of my Kansas finds.

[Auspex]

One last addition. For those who haven't seen this yet, here's a picture of one of my Kansas finds.

DUDE! That is sweet!

[Nandomas]

One last addition. For those who haven't seen this yet, here's a picture of one of my Kansas finds.

WOW!!!! :o

[fossil man]

Boneman Wow thats a lot of information. I have found some what a geo map, do you think it will work for locating the formation or do you think it would be advised to get a better map

http://geology.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=geology&cdn=education&tm=10&gps=80_410_972_610&f=00&tt=14&bt=1&bts=1&st=5&zu=http%3A//www.kgs.ku.edu/General/Geology/index.html

Also i have talked a little bit to Xiphactinus and he had mentioned finding landowners and calling and asking permission. I was wondering if you have ever done this and had any luck with it, or if the door knocking was the best bet

I really appreciate all the information. Thanks for everyones time and effort.

Lloyd

[fossil man]

Boneman i was wondering if you had any of the websites that you mentioned about ranches for lease.

Thanks again

Lloyd

[Boneman007]

Agreed, Ramo - You need permission, posted or not.

They do not release mountain lions and bobcats. There were only 2 sightings of lions in Kansas last year. One had a radio tracker and he was a lonely misplaced Colorado lion looking for a lady.

Otherwise, pretty spot on.

The information on released animals came from many of the ranchers at breakfast one morning. They seemed very unhappy about it. I will add that it was about 5 years ago when they said the animals were being released. I could find nothing on the internet saying they were released, so I suspect the ranchers might have been messing with us.

As for 2 sightings, given the amount of tracks we have seen, I would also be surprised by that. When you see a cat-paw track the size of you fist, it's disconcerting to say the least.

I saw pictures of a lion carcass that measured 8 feet in length (head to tail). I was told is weighted 300 pounds.

I did find some interesting sites on the subject:

http://kdwp.blogspot.com/2006/04/mountain-lions-in-kansas.html

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/KS-mountain-lions-do-exist/ho6F1nAj3keUWjZXAB8XKw.cspx

http://www.cougarnet.org/prairie-desc/KS3-08.htm

http://www.audubonofkansas.org/MountainLions/mountainlions.html

Edited August 26, 2010 by Boneman007

[Boneman007]

Boneman Wow thats a lot of information. I have found some what a geo map, do you think it will work for locating the formation or do you think it would be advised to get a better map

http://geology.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=geology&cdn=education&tm=10&gps=80_410_972_610&f=00&tt=14&bt=1&bts=1&st=5&zu=http%3A//www.kgs.ku.edu/General/Geology/index.html

Also i have talked a little bit to Xiphactinus and he had mentioned finding landowners and calling and asking permission. I was wondering if you have ever done this and had any luck with it, or if the door knocking was the best bet

I really appreciate all the information. Thanks for everyones time and effort.

Lloyd

That looks like it would work! Thanks for the site, I hadn't seen that one!

[Boneman007]

Boneman i was wondering if you had any of the websites that you mentioned about ranches for lease.

Thanks again

Lloyd

I would think that calling the land owners would work. It takes time to get to know these folks, though. Also, the politics can be interesting. Sometimes you can't tell one rancher that you have access to another rancher's land, because they don't like each other.

Another reason we get access because we NEVER sell the fossils we find.

As for a website to lease the land, I've never seen one. I just know that we have lost 50% of our access to ranches because of fossil-rights leases. It's disheartening to go to a ranch where you have found incredible stuff, and hear "No, you can't go on the ranch because we leased the fossil rights".

Also, it is important to clean up after yourselves. The Royal museum of Canada dug up a plesiosaur a number of years ago and left a giant hole in the ground that resulted in a couple of cows falling in and dying. They didn't even ask permission, or give credit to the land owner in the publications. Needless to say, we never got on that ranch.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Boneman007

[Boneman007]

Kansas has no Wolverines either (lots of Badgers though).

We had a wolverine run out into the middle of the road in front of us. We stopped, and it stood it's ground and began rushing at my lifted Tahoe. Also, it had a stink that was unreal. I hope I never meet one in the field.

It was the size of a large dog and twice as wide with very large claws.

I was one of four people in the truck when it happened.

I can say with 100% certainty that they DO exist in Kansas.

[Auspex]

We had a wolverine run out into the middle of the road in front of us. We stopped, and it stood it's ground and began rushing at my lifted Tahoe. Also, it had a stink that was unreal. I hope I never meet one in the field.

It was the size of a large dog and twice as wide with very large claws.

I was one of four people in the truck when it happened.

I can say with 100% certainty that they DO exist in Kansas.

Your description sounds good; he must have gotten off at the wrong airport!

He was way out of range!

[Ramo]

I've hunted, trapped, fished and just messed around a lot in Kansas for 40 years, and one thing you can count on is that every coffee shop in every little town can supply you with all the Mountain Lion stories you want. The truth is there have only been two confirmend in recent times. One was shot down by Medicine Lodge, and a bowhunter caught one on a trail camera last winter west o of Hays. (I think the Colorado lion was found in Oklahoma, they have bigfoots, bigfeets, whatever there also) Kansas gets overran by deer hunters, bird hunters, and coyote hunters every year, and none of these groups has ever killed a lion. I suspect those tracks are bobcat tracks or dog tracks. Both very common. I have never seen a lion track in Kansas, and I assure you I look at tracks a lot. As far as Govt conspiracy to release lions.... where do you go to get 500 lions a year? If you believe that, I could tell you a true story about some divers at lake _________(You fill in the blank), who saw catfish big enough to eat a man. Or the true story of the city slickers who shot their limit of quail only to find out later they were meadowlarks. (I like to call these Rural Legends)

Ramo

[Xiphactinus]

I would think that calling the land owners would work. It takes time to get to know these folks, though. Also, the politics can be interesting. Sometimes you can't tell one rancher that you have access to another rancher's land, because they don't like each other.

Another reason we get access because we NEVER sell the fossils we find.

As for a website to lease the land, I've never seen one. I just know that we have lost 50% of our access to ranches because of fossil-rights leases. It's disheartening to go to a ranch where you have found incredible stuff, and hear "No, you can't go on the ranch because we leased the fossil rights".

Also, it is important to clean up after yourselves. The Royal museum of Canada dug up a plesiosaur a number of years ago and left a giant hole in the ground that resulted in a couple of cows falling in and dying. They didn't even ask permission, or give credit to the land owner in the publications. Needless to say, we never got on that ranch.

Yeah, we lost access to one of our favorite ranches because someone leased fossil rights. Sounds like the deal is "We'll give you X% of whatever we sell". Nice, no risk offer since until (if) the fossil is sold, no money changes hands.