Whale Tooth Id Help

[cowsharks]

Back in 2004-2005, my buddy and I came upon a new fall along Calvert Cliffs (Miocene) where we normally hunted. The material that came down out of the cliff face was clearly zone 10 material, which I think was the Plum Point member of the Calvert formation. In any event, my buddy found a shattered tooth, that we believed was a really large whale tooth of some sort. Unfortunately it was in about 100 pieces, but when put back together it wasn't too bad. We went back to this pile over the next few days as the tides slowly eroded the pile away, leaving behind any fossils that were buried in the dirt and shells. On our next visit, I found a complete one of these whale teeth. We were so excited, because my tooth looked just like his, except mine was whole. We immediately thought they were associated since a) in all the years of collecting, we had never seen a tooth of this type before from Calvert Cliffs and the fact that two of them were from the same pile of material must have meant they were from the same animal. In any event, we were really stoked so we continued to hit that pile and area for many days and weeks. Just a few weeks later, after the small pile was long gone, I found another one of these whale teeth, and someone else we had heard found one there also. Unfortunately they wouldn't trade or sell their whale tooth to me. For weeks and months later we always checked that specific section of beach to see if any more teeth or bones showed up, but nothing. In the end, I found the two teeth, my friend one, and we knew of at least 2 other teeth found by other collectors.

I took my teeth to the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, and there Dave Bohaska identified them as whale teeth, most likely a type of sperm whale tooth. What was unusual however, was the presence of enamel on the tips of the crowns. I've never seen any other whale teeth like these, and never heard of anything similar being found along Calvert Cliffs. We do occasionally find the small sperm whale teeth that have no enamel on them and always have a worn tip.

So, if anyone has any further ID help on these whale teeth I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

thanks,

Daryl.

Edited November 4, 2010 by cowsharks

[Harry Pristis]

Back in 2004-2005, my buddy and I came upon a new fall along Calvert Cliffs (Miocene) where we normally hunted. The material that came down out of the cliff face was clearly zone 10 material, which I think was the Plum Point member of the Calvert formation. In any event, my buddy found a shattered tooth, that we believed was a really large whale tooth of some sort. Unfortunately it was in about 100 pieces, but when put back together it wasn't too bad. We went back to this pile over the next few days as the tides slowly eroded the pile away, leaving behind any fossils that were buried in the dirt and shells. On our next visit, I found a complete one of these whale teeth. We were so excited, because my tooth looked just like his, except mine was whole. We immediately thought they were associated since a) in all the years of collecting, we had never seen a tooth of this type before from Calvert Cliffs and the fact that two of them were from the same pile of material must have meant they were from the same animal. In any event, we were really stoked so we continued to hit that pile and area for many days and weeks. Just a few weeks later, after the small pile was long gone, I found another one of these whale teeth, and someone else we had heard found one there also. Unfortunately they wouldn't trade or sell their whale tooth to me. For weeks and months later we always checked that specific section of beach to see if any more teeth or bones showed up, but nothing. In the end, I found the two teeth, my friend one, and we knew of at least 2 other teeth found by other collectors.

I took my teeth to the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, and there Dave Bohaska identified them as whale teeth, most likely a type of sperm whale tooth. What was unusual however, was the presence of enamel on the tips of the crowns. I've never seen any other whale teeth like these, and never heard of anything similar being found along Calvert Cliffs. We do occasionally find the small sperm whale teeth that have no enamel on them and always have a worn tip.

So, if anyone has any further ID help on these whale teeth I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

thanks,

Daryl.

I think of these sperm whale teeth as Kogiopsis sp., but Hulbert is more diffident. He figures one of these teeth in his book as "unidentified."

[Boesse]

Kogiopsis floridana has been labeled a nomen dubium by several authors; cetacean teeth aren't diagnostic at all past the family level, except perhaps in archaeocete cetaceans. The holotype of K. floridana is an undiagnostic chunk of the mandibular symphysis with a bunch of undiagnostic, damaged teeth in it.

To be honest, if there's any group of cetaceans where taxonomy based on teeth has caused problems, it is the physeteridae (sperm whales) - the specific one I'm thinking of is "Scaldicetus"; teeth with the "Scaldicetus" morphology are now known to belong to over a half-dozen genera. The horribly confused state of physeterid taxonomy, which has recently begun to be revised in recent years, is primarily due to the unfortunately reliance upon teeth for type specimens.

Anyway, Hulbert is correct to refrain from identifying those teeth beyond the family level - that's what my ID for these teeth is as well. Now, depending upon whether you use the family or subfamily for Kogiidae/Kogiinae, this tooth would be identifiable as physeteroidea indet. or physeteridae indet. (respectively). I will mention that the only sperm whale known thus far from the Calvert Formation is Orycterocetus crocodilinus, which has teeth with annular growth 'bands' like your teeth. If anything, these teeth *probably* belong to Orycterocetus, but are not associated with diagnostic cranial material, so it is impossible to tell. "Kogiopsis" is late Miocene, and even if it were a valid taxon, is too young anyway.

The presence of enamel caps on these teeth isn't that weird, actually; it's a primitive feature for sperm whales, and is a natural intermediate between primitive odontocetes and modern sperm whales.

Bobby

[tracer]

and THAT'S why i dont never try to post nuthin' smart soundin' about cetaceans nor pinneprongs. no sir! *i* know the butter always falls bread-side down when you go up against them kind of neurons.

[Jesta384]

and THAT'S why i dont never try to post nuthin' smart soundin' about cetaceans nor pinneprongs. no sir! *i* know the butter always falls bread-side down when you go up against them kind of neurons.

holy bejeebus i laughed so hard.

I think Bobby needs to share some of his source material....or his brain. He always blows my mind with his posts.

[cowsharks]

Kogiopsis floridana has been labeled a nomen dubium by several authors; cetacean teeth aren't diagnostic at all past the family level, except perhaps in archaeocete cetaceans. The holotype of K. floridana is an undiagnostic chunk of the mandibular symphysis with a bunch of undiagnostic, damaged teeth in it.

To be honest, if there's any group of cetaceans where taxonomy based on teeth has caused problems, it is the physeteridae (sperm whales) - the specific one I'm thinking of is "Scaldicetus"; teeth with the "Scaldicetus" morphology are now known to belong to over a half-dozen genera. The horribly confused state of physeterid taxonomy, which has recently begun to be revised in recent years, is primarily due to the unfortunately reliance upon teeth for type specimens.

Anyway, Hulbert is correct to refrain from identifying those teeth beyond the family level - that's what my ID for these teeth is as well. Now, depending upon whether you use the family or subfamily for Kogiidae/Kogiinae, this tooth would be identifiable as physeteroidea indet. or physeteridae indet. (respectively). I will mention that the only sperm whale known thus far from the Calvert Formation is Orycterocetus crocodilinus, which has teeth with annular growth 'bands' like your teeth. If anything, these teeth *probably* belong to Orycterocetus, but are not associated with diagnostic cranial material, so it is impossible to tell. "Kogiopsis" is late Miocene, and even if it were a valid taxon, is too young anyway.

The presence of enamel caps on these teeth isn't that weird, actually; it's a primitive feature for sperm whales, and is a natural intermediate between primitive odontocetes and modern sperm whales.

Bobby

Thanks for taking the time to provide the ID info guys. Bobby, I'll check on Orycterocetus info with Dave Bohaska as well. A friend of mine says he has a modern sperm whale tooth that he got at a fossil & mineral show last a while back and he might give it to me for comparison to my fossil teeth. I'll post a pic if I can get my hands on it.

When my buddy and I found these teeth back on 2005, we were really excited because to our knowledge, and the Smithsonian in DC, no one else had found anything like these before along Calvert Cliffs. What stunk was that no one had a definitive ID, and I hate just calling them "whale teeth". I have three associate teeth from another whale/dolphin like creature that no one has ever seen before either, so they too don't have an ID. I'll dig out a pic of them and post for opinions.

Thanks for the help, good info.

Daryl.

[Boesse]

No problem - modern Physeter has teeth that lack enamel and are big and bulbous (and extremely variable in shape), and it looks nothing like your specimens. Orycterocetus *may* be a good ID - these teeth seem to be a good match - and since Orycterocetus is the only Calvert sperm whale (according to Gottfried et al. 1994), then I would tentatively be OK with identifying these teeth below the family level.

Bobby

[Han]

In my opinion it is very difficult to say some about these teeth. The only I know at the moment these are absolutely sperm whale teeth.

In the Northsea Basin (Netherlands) now and than (pieces of) teeth with enamel of sperm whales are found. (Recent sperm whales don't have enamel on their teeth).

The problem is that complete skull are not found (yet).

Scaldicetus is a name often used for this kind of teeth, but there seem te be more morphotypes.

What it is? We don't know yet. Maybe more species, maybe there are milk tooth between. This story will be continued......

See the attachment for more information about the Lee Creek Mine sperm whales

regards,

Han

Sperm whale teeth.pdf

Edited November 8, 2010 by Han

[Shellseeker]

Wow. I was just building up to post some questions about whales and ask for an ID and decided to search for a photo of a bulbous fossil sperm whale tooth, and I came across this GREAT TFF thread from 5 years ago. Well worth the read and the linked PDF is excellent also.

So my story, My wife and siblings donated to get me one of my best all time presents: A modern scrimshaw sperm whale tooth. I noted no typical whale tooth bands.

Then I have been finding some fossil sperm? whale teeth recently. Some about the size of my small finger (Kogiopsis floridana?) and some about the diameter of a quarter and 5 inches long. (Orycterocetus crocodilinus?) Finally a very small tooth with typical whale banding.

Also in this thread, a statement that modern sperm whale do not have the characteristic banding..

I felt that this thread was worth re-posting for those looking for details on whale teeth. Enjoy SS

PS Here is the one for ID -- Are there whale tooth banding, and if not what else has horizontal band like these?

Edited December 31, 2015 by Shellseeker