Harry Pristis Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Here are two teeth which are quite dissimilar in form. What could they have in common? These are Pleistocene teeth from the Peace River in South Florida. However, these animals were widely-distributed in the Pleistocene. Crown height of the tooth on the left is 16.9mm . . . the tooth on the right is 25.9mm. If you can identify these teeth and the things they might have in common, you will win the esteem of your contemporaries. Further, you can win a Golden Kudo with all the prestige and emoluments attached thereto. Please provide your reasoning for any guess you may make. 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Llama teeth from Peace River, Florida, and Pleistocene in age. I have seen teeth similar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Tapir Molar from Peace River, Florida, and Pleistocene in age. They are both from the same animal? They are both from the same section of river? One is a baby, one is adult? Comes from a mother and child? I have seen teeth similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) Both are molars of Pleistocene Tapirs. One, the big one, of Tapirus haysii, the biggest of the two Pleistocene Tapirs. The other one is of Tapirus veroensis. Edited June 16, 2011 by Han Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 i'm not seeing tapir, or molars. the teeth look like selenodont premolars. tapirs have lophodont dentition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowsharks Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 No clue, but Tracer's reply made me go look up selenodont and lophodont. Found some nice pics here: My link scroll half way down... Daryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 'Odin' is a roulette player, trying to cover both the black and the red with his bets. Good ideas, but too many of 'em. One guess at a time, please. These two teeth are both hypsodont and selenodont. That should be a start. They are from mammals that are heterodont (but then, most mammals are heterodont). How could these dissimilar teeth be from one species? . . . or even from one individual? Answer this question, and you may be on the way to a Golden Kudo! 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffy Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 My shot in the dark is Rhino. My reasoning is I don't have any, and I have been looking for a long time. Harry am I right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squalicorax Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 my guess is upper deer molars cant really tell the difference between the two two different species My Flickr Page of My Collection: http://www.flickr.com/photos/79424101@N00/sets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Well, 'hoffy', the crown of the left tooth does bear an uncanny resemblance in outline to a rhino tooth; but, it is not from a rhino or anything closely related. This quiz has bogged down. Go back to one of the guesses by 'Odin'. These teeth are from a common Pleistocene species that every vertebrate collector in Florida or Texas or California knows. There just aren't that many selenodont species to be found in the Pleistocene of Florida -- all I can think of are bison, deer, and __________. The identity of the animals is the easiest part. The other question is, What do the two teeth have in common? 'Odin' shotgunned some guesses, but he missed what I'm looking for. These teeth were isolated recoveries. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertman Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 A total guess on my part would be camelid teeth. Maybe they represent a genus such as Hemiauchenia, Paleolama, or Camelops. My reasoning on the camelid is that I can only think of the camelids and cattle as types of animals with selenodont teeth that weren't mentioned by Harry Pristis in his hint. I am at a loss for what the teeth have in common so I venture a complete guess. How about they were found in the exact same spot at different times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrow Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) Both Camelid Both mandibular premolars Edited June 17, 2011 by darrow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Both Camelid Both mandibular premolars Okaaay! Now, we're on the right track. ('vertman', cattle weren't present in the Pleistocene of Florida.) One of these teeth IS a mandibular premolar from a camelid, Palaeolama. The other tooth is not. Which is which? What is the second tooth, then? 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrow Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) Okaaay! Now, we're on the right track. ('vertman', cattle weren't present in the Pleistocene of Florida.) One of these teeth IS a mandibular premolar from a camelid, Palaeolama. The other tooth is not. Which is which? What is the second tooth, then? Edited June 17, 2011 by darrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 maxillary and mandibular teeth can look amazingly different from each other. the different forms of the teeth make sense in that one jaw is stationary while the other jaw works against it with various movement to grind or cut food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) Well, 'darrow' deserves a Silver Kudo for a near miss and for his persistence. Cogratulations! What I find notable about these two teeth is that each is a premolar four from the same species (possibly the same individual), Palaeolama mirifica. 'darrow' identified the mandibular premolar (p4), and the other tooth - the one with three roots - is a maxillary or upper premolar (P4). It's possible to find sections of fossil camelid mandible in a high-energy environment like the Peace River, but it's rare to find a portion of maxilla with teeth. So, casual collectors rarely see a camelid P4 associated with its molars. These two premolars make a strange pair when placed side-by-side, don't you think? Thanks for participating. Edited June 17, 2011 by Harry Pristis 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 On 6/17/2011 at 11:33 AM, Harry Pristis said: It's possible to find sections of fossil camelid mandible in a high-energy environment like the Peace River, but it's rare to find a portion of maxilla with teeth. So, casual collectors rarely see a camelid P4 associated with its molars. These two premolars make a strange pair when placed side-by-side, don't you think? Harry, I was about to put up a tooth I found yesterday in that Peace River high-energy environment. It was definitely high-energy!!! yesterday. I did not recognize this tooth, but noted that it has 3 roots. My hunting companion , who has hunted the Peace River for 40 years, said he thought it was a Bison pre-molar. However, it looked sort of "Llama" to me, so I checked out Hemiauchenia macrocephala but could not match. Are P4s from the two common Florida Llamas different? In any case, I stumbled over this excellent thread of yours and decided to dust it off.. I only wish I had the roots, but that "high-energy environment.. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 The only distinction I am able to make between the two llamas is based on the fine crenulations in the surface of Palaeolama enamel. Based on than factor, your tooth may well be from a Hemiauchenia llama. Good find. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 On 3/19/2019 at 9:48 PM, Harry Pristis said: The only distinction I am able to make between the two llamas is based on the fine crenulations in the surface of Palaeolama enamel. Based on than factor, your tooth may well be from a Hemiauchenia llama. Good find. Harry, I recalled this excellent thread and came back because I was thinking it might be Palaeolama P4. There are similarities and differences. Do I have a piece of the jaw covering the roots? Is the enamel just worn down? What do you think? 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted April 5, 2020 Author Share Posted April 5, 2020 Camelids have selenodont teeth. Your find is not from a selenodont critter. I don't recognize the tooth. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now