bmorefossil Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) yep looks pretty close to me Edited September 2, 2011 by bmorefossil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbyte Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) Jason, Your dry pictures make it even more difficult to identify. Mow all I see are incredible Shark teeth. Before when it was wet it looked like Tusk tip or Horn Core to me, now it looks like amazing Shark teeth. Quit tantalizing us dang it. Great finds. I am very impressed. By the way, back to the original topic. I am still thinking Tusk tip or Horn Core for sure. It is true that horn cores like that would be somewhat hollowed on the big end but not all the way up. I think that portion of the core is mostly broken away. If indeed it turns out to be horn core, it was one big rascal. That dude certainly had his pick of the ladies. That piece belongs in your personal collection or your brothers for sure. I always look forward to your postings because I know I can count on seeing some great fossil finds. Keep it up. Just a little note, I used to be a taxidermist of almost 30 years and during that time I mounted (hate to use that word because I know the jokes are comming) quite a few Ram, Goats, Sheep and even a few Bison and the horn had to be removed from the core to do the mount and atleast the last third of the core was always solid or much more dense. The closer you got to the base the less dense the composition was. The larger the animal the larger the solid end was and several animal horn cores were gradually flattenig in shape as they went up. I still could be wrong but I'm going to stick with Tusk Tip or Horn Core. Edited September 2, 2011 by Sharkbyte "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) I have seen Walrus fossils that were pulled out of the Chesapeake. Edited September 2, 2011 by Scylla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I'm not certain about your fossil but when I first looked at the images I thought walrus tusk, but there are a few features that make me think it is not walrus. Walrus remains are frequently found in North Carolina so I'm guessing they would also be somewhat frequent in South Carolina. In North Carolina they are in the Pliocene Yorktown Formation (probably Duplin Formation too). Walrus tusk are composed of dense dentine. I cannot tell from your photos if your fossil is dentine or bone. Walrus tusk will have globular osteodentine in the center of the tooth. These globular structures are about the size of peas. I don't see these on your image of the end of the fossil but that doesn't mean they aren't there. I would also expect to see growth lines on the tooth but only if the outer cementum has worn away to reveal them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeloiVarden Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 My wife found some pics of bison horn cores that look similar. http://www.nuggetsfactory.com/shop/product.php?id_product=4634 I don't know if it helps, but there does appear to be a layer about an 1/8th of an inch thick on the outside. Would that support it being a horn or tusk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay99 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Wow, that skull is FASCINATING! I never heard of that thing! More research...... Lindsay So along the lines of tusks and gomph, I did some searching and think it may resemble the lower tusks seen on a very gomph like mammal called the Deinotherium. Take a look at the skull on wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deinotherium_giganteum_skull.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniraptoran Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 my vote is for claw core most horns have a kind of spiral growth pattern, and those grooves on the side look crescent shaped, like what you would expect from a claw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 ok, at this point i'm going out on a limb and saying it doesn't look like bone all that much to me, as compared to ivory. granted, i don't see any schreger lines, and the outline of the thing isn't like any tusk i've ever seen. but i'm looking at the way it is broken on the end, and the dings and predation by boring things on the sides, and in comparing in my mind the texture, color, apparent hardness, and manner in which it breaks, i'm just not finding it as similar to bone as to dentin. and there's no cancellous bone in the middle of it either. no visible nutrient or neural foramena or whatever. don't know. just trying to think out loud. walrus tusk doesn't work all that well for me. any other critters known to have hung out in that area that sported ivories of that general shape? sunlight pictures would be awesome (i know, i know...) EDIT: i've changed my mind completely. it's a piece of root from a toenail tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeloiVarden Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Here you go Tracer. Some outside photos. The sun was beginning to set, but I think the outdoor light still helps to give contrast. I also took some macro shots of what appears to be a 1/8" then outer layer (enamal, horn, dentin???) which I hope helps on the identification. Thanks Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I've just finished looking at "Pliocene Walruses from the Yorktown Formation of Virginia and North Carolina" by Kohno and Ray (in Lee Creek volume 4). I'm now convinced it is walrus. In the publication they show many examples of walrus canines and they are highly variable but 2 of the specimens look almost identical to this fossil. The Pliocene walrus is Ontocetus emmonsi and its canines have little resemblance to modern walrus canines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 that concept works for me if there's record of walrus tusks with those dimensions. the piece has kind of grown on me with looking at it. i think it's very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Al Dente, can you please post the photos that match this specimen? Also can you or others fill in the blanks on the rarity of this type of fossil and its exact paleo-context along the east coast? I enjoy following the vertebrate material as a curious bystander but this one appears to be something special to my limited appreciation and knowledge. Congratulations Jason on such a spectacular discovery. Sounds like your brother will have to find another one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 that concept works for me if there's record of walrus tusks with those dimensions. the piece has kind of grown on me with looking at it. i think it's very cool. All the canines in the publication I mentioned are larger than 5 cm front to back but less than 10 cm. If DeloiVarden's hand is 9 to 10 cm wide, then his tusk is larger than any of the illustrated ones in the publication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 All the canines in the publication I mentioned are larger than 5 cm front to back but less than 10 cm. If DeloiVarden's hand is 9 to 10 cm wide, then his tusk is larger than any of the illustrated ones in the publication. see i didn't even realize walruses were metric... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeloiVarden Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the lively discussion everyone and especially to those that took the time to research! Jason Edited September 3, 2011 by DeloiVarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 no, thank you for sharing the cool find with us. just found this previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Al Dente, can you please post the photos that match this specimen? Also can you or others fill in the blanks on the rarity of this type of fossil and its exact paleo-context along the east coast? From the abstract: "Extinct walruses have been found in the Lower Pliocene Yorktown Formation of Virginia and North Carolina,… and in other correlative deposits on the eastern seaboard of North America (South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida). …Most of the European and African Pliocene walrus taxa…, fall morphologically within the range of sexual, ontogenetic, and individual variation seen within the Lee Creek sample of O. emmonsi….Ontocetus appears to have become extinct by the Pleistocene in the North Atlantic before the arrival of the Recent walrus." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 That does it for me: biiiig walrus! Sweet! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Thanks very much for photos and abstract Al Dente. Incredibly magnificent walrus fossil Jason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrehistoricFlorida Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Does anyone have a side view of these walrus tusks? Are they round or oval? www.PrehistoricFlorida.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Oval in cross section, just visited the museum in Aurora today, the walrus's there looked like this too. Some did have a wear facet at the end, but some tapered like this one did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeloiVarden Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 Hey Guys, Not trying to revive the thread, just adding some more references I found regarding walrus fossils found in SC and Fl. The following article cites fossil finds documented in: Additions to the pleistocene mammal faunas of South Carolina ..., Volume 92 By American Philosophical Society of walrus finds in SC. http://markgelbart.wordpress.com/2011/01/28/seals-and-walruses-off-southeastern-north-americas-pleistocene-coast/ Here is a walrus tusk on display behind some megs. http://www.paleocurrents.com/img/2002_09_13FV/HTML/137-3786_img.htm Regardless of whether my fossil is a walrus tusk or not, they have been found in both SC and FL. So keep you eyes open my fellow SC, GA and FL fossil hunters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroMike Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Hey Jason, have you sent the pics to the state museum curator yet? I would love to know what they think of it. They do have Walrus tusks up there from the low country so send them pics~!!!!!!! " This comment brought to you by the semi-famous AeroMike" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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