mikeymig Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Found this jaw back in 2001 in Wyoming with Kent. He told me that it was real rare and what it was but know I cant remember. Any White River experts out there know? Thanks Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordpiney Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Entelodont? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 How big is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Its small (1" long) thats why I had to photograph it using a caliper. Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I have some oddball Oligocene Badlands jaw sections but nothing in my collection matches that. I'm wondering if that could be a bothriodont jaw though it seems small for that. You should PM fossillarry about that. He is an expert on Badlands stuff. Found this jaw back in 2001 in Wyoming with Kent. He told me that it was real rare and what it was but know I cant remember. Any White River experts out there know? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I have some oddball Oligocene Badlands jaw sections but nothing in my collection matches that. I'm wondering if that could be a bothriodont jaw though it seems small for that. You should PM fossillarry about that. He is an expert on Badlands stuff. Thanks for the info and yea, I have a couple Bothriodon jaw frag in my collection. If I remember right Kent said it was related to something weird like elephants? You know like a Hyrax is related to elephants. Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 There weren't any even distant elephant relatives in central North America until the Middle Miocene (desmostylians and sea cows would have been as close as relatives got but they were marine animals). The teeth don't look like those in a leptochoerid (Stibarus) specimen I have but maybe that's a possibility. Leptochoerids, the remains of which are rare, were thought to be related to peccaries as I remember it. I don't know the latest word on those. Thanks for the info and yea, I have a couple Bothriodon jaw frag in my collection. If I remember right Kent said it was related to something weird like elephants? You know like a Hyrax is related to elephants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 lol - I was just giving an example Im not saying it IS related to elephants I was just trying to jog me memory. I have a copy of Japheth Boyce's book that he gave me forever ago and I think, THINK that maybe it could be a Chadronia a Pantolesta??? So not related to an Elephant but a Primate??? Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I work with Kent, if I remember, i'll bring this to his attention. Or PM me. I also know the White river a little bit, but I don't recognize this jaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I was just eliminating any elephant relative as a possibility (although if peccaries are actually distantly related to pigs, then that could be a connection to elephant ancestors). I've never seen a pantolestan from the Badlands but they are known from North America - interesting possibility. Can you take a photo straight down at the chewing surfaces? That would help a mammal expert with an ID. Pantolestans died out during the Oligocene without leaving any descendants. I picked up that book, "The Beginning of the Age of Mammals" by Kenneth D. Rose, and just started reading it two nights ago. It's rather expensive but I found a decent condition used copy for about 25-30% off retail. It is geared toward paleo students and researchers but I would say it is accessible to the collector with an average to above-average interest in mammal fossils and it would be something for anyone who has collected the Chadronian beds. Technical terms are explained and it is abundantly illustrated. I like it so far. If you get an ID on it outside of the forum, please let us know. lol - I was just giving an example Im not saying it IS related to elephants I was just trying to jog me memory. I have a copy of Japheth Boyce's book that he gave me forever ago and I think, THINK that maybe it could be a Chadronia a Pantolesta??? So not related to an Elephant but a Primate??? Edited March 2, 2012 by siteseer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 A little blurry but I hope this helps. Thank you for your help thus far. Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Im still looking for an ID to this little 1" long jaw from the Oligocene Badlands of Wyoming. Im hoping its a primate like CHUMASHIUS. Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Im still looking for an ID to this little 1" long jaw from the Oligocene Badlands of Wyoming. Im hoping its a primate like CHUMASHIUS. THANKS mikey Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Alaska Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 This may be way off but the teeth remind me of these. This photo was labled Spotted hyena. I am not very knowlegable about such things. This was just a Hmm those look some what similar to the untrained eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 I was told today that the little jaw is Stibarus quadricuspis (Hatcher 1901) so you were right siteseer, its a little extinct pig. I already have specimens of Bothriodon and Perchoerus so this little jaw will fit in nicely with them. Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Well, that's interesting. If your jaw is Stibarus, then mine may be a close relative. The teeth in jaw section show more wear on the cusps than yours but also shows some tiny bumps and rounded ridges on the lingual and buccal crown surfaces while the crown surfaces on yours appear to be smooth. My jaw section bears the robust last premolar (slightly larger than the first molar) which at least tentatively identifies it in the same group as Stibarus. I'm reading "The Beginning of the Age of Mammals" and skipped ahead to the section where Stibarus is classified within the superfamily Dichobunoidea, the family Dichobunidae and the subfamily Leptochoerinae. Dichobunoids include the earliest known artiodactyls and various groups probably ancestral to (or otherwise related to) at least several extinct and modern artiodactyl groups. Paleontologists are trying to sort them all out to determine who-is-related-to-whom but several groups appear to have acquired the same kinds of adaptations independently, making it difficult to pinpoint anatomical details relevant to establishing clear interrelationships. I know you're providing a modern analogue for forum members who don't collect mammals to give them an idea what it was and "pig" (or maybe "mini pig-deer") is probably as close as anything in terms of classification, but Stibarus was actually one of those weird little Eocene-Oligocene mammals that we really don't have a common name for. It was more lightly-built than a peccary and had more of a deer-like head (but with more robust teeth like a pig for its size), standing maybe just under a foot (25-30cm) at the shoulder. I was thinking maybe the South American chevrotain is the closest in terms of what it looked like. I was told today that the little jaw is Stibarus quadricuspis (Hatcher 1901) so you were right siteseer, its a little extinct pig. I already have specimens of Bothriodon and Perchoerus so this little jaw will fit in nicely with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) It's amazing that a little 1" fossil jaw with only 3 teeth has such a big story to tell and it's still being written. I would like to see what this crazy little animal looked like when it was alive. It's tuff trying to describe an extinct animal that has no living analogue like Oreodons. Most books will say that Oreodons were "sheep sized herbivores". When someone reads that they will think Oreodons looked like sheep when in fact they were ground dwelling deer pigs. Thank you for your interest and if you have or can find an image of this little deer-pig I would appreciate it. Thanks mikey The closest thing I could find online was this image of a Diacodexis. It was grouped in with Stibarus In the most recent phylogenetic analyses (Gentry and ######, 1988; Theodor and Foss, 2005). Edited March 12, 2012 by mikeymig Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now