New York City Bans 'dinosaurs' From City Wide Test Questions ...

[AgrilusHunter]

they may genuinely be interested in testing a candidate's capacity for abstract thought, rather then their reaction to an emotive issue.

A noble idea, but I still agree with your earlier post that this decision has more of a legal basis than anything else.

... but an assessment of the education system as well ...

Herein lies my complaint with the decision. I fully understand why they have chosen to ban these topics, the underlying principle is not complicated or even (as Auspex pointed out) new. What I have a problem with is the idea that students cannot be both confronted with an emotive issue and maintain abstract thought. There is a difference between asking students to answer an offensive question and asking students to answer a question dealing with an important but controversial aspect of science. Banning a topic such as dinosaurs from these tests simply because it is linked to evolutionary theory does a disservice to our education system.

Edited March 30, 2012 by AgrilusHunter

[ashcraft]

There is a difference between asking students to answer an offensive question and asking students to answer a question dealing with an important but controversial aspect of science. Banning a topic such as dinosaurs from these tests simply because it is linked to evolutionary theory does a disservice to our education system.

Very well said.

Brent Ashcraft

[Pagurus]

This reminds me when my son took a pre-kindergarten intellegence test, drawing lines to connect two pictures. Bat and Ball, Tea Kettle and Stove, Shirt and Tie .....

He did well except for the shirt and tie. I never wore a tie when he was young and he had no idea what it was.

[Scylla]

Where do I start the rant?! OK, count to ten first.....

On second thought I'll just smile and remember that two of my three kids are home schooled. I would like to point out that many supposedly genetic traits have indeed improved over the past century or two, including height, IQ, life expectancy. This may be due to better nutrition, less childhood illnesses or even alien intervention But I am not so sure we are in Hardy-Weinburg equillibrium, several human genes have evolved more in the past 5K years than in the 30K before. Refs available on request. A good example is lactose tolerance. For more evidence that there is still selection pressure on humans google "Darwin Awards"

[sixgill pete]

THobern and Brent, you two are obviously intelligent individuals and have made some interesting and accurate observations . You are correct in that I was using IQ instead of knowledge. Bad on me. Since I do not know what you do for a living, I can say, that I deal with a goodly number of "average" people and that I have noticed a lack of basic skills in a large number of young adults. If you hand a cashier change after they have already entered a whole dollar amount they can not compute the change to be returned. Many can not fill out a job application without help. Being able to Google something on the internet is not the same as learned knowledge. Others have no idea how to balance a checkbook or do simple math. This is what I mean by the "dumbing down of America." One thing I will still disagree with is that the SAT is a measure of anything other than how well you can take a test. I did terrible on the SAT and was a "C" student in high school. However I graduated magna from college, and 4.0 in grad school. Motivation is more important than memorization. Regards, Herb

Herb, I agree with you completely. I was a C student in High School, graduated from college at age 50 with a 4.0 and a degree in electronics engineering. Many of the young people I work with do not have the skills that even a C student did 35 years ago. They lack the understanding of many basic things (counting out change is the perfect example) Their language and communication skills are terrible, they cannot write basic letters and e-mails, ans don't even let me get started about math. Political correctness is definitely dumbing down America. Let the teachers make the tests like they used to. Stop passing kids along because they might cry if they fail.

Edited April 1, 2012 by sixgill pete

[Auspex]

...young people...do not have the skills that even a C student did 35 years ago. They lack the understanding of many basic things (counting out change is the perfect example) There language and communication skills are terrible, they cannot write basic letters and e-mails, ans don't even let me get started about math...

This is what the previous generation said about mine (except for the part about e-mail). The more things change, the more they remain the same.

[sixgill pete]

True Auspex. But we should get back to fossils and away from politics.

[Herb]

I agree with everyone! I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. This is getting way too deep for me. Very intelligent posts though.

Later, dudes!!

[THobern]

This is what the previous generation said about mine (except for the part about e-mail). The more things change, the more they remain the same.

http://xkcd.com/603/

[Boesse]

My 2 cents: I find it interesting that people are being catered to so that their emotions are not harmed by education and new information. Part of the way we learn and advance as a society and as individuals is confronting uncomfortable and 'inconvenient' truths (no relation to global warming, just a really appropriate term in this case). One thing I face on a daily basis as a scientist is having my ideas and hypotheses challenged and tested; sometimes having a neat idea disproven can be a major bummer, but it is for the best to abandon poorly supported ideas. It is difficult and against our 'hard wiring' to divorce our brain from our heart and say 'adios' to ideas that are faulty, wrong, or just plain stupid. Often the most learning we do is when we are out of our comfort zone, learning new things outside our daily sphere of experience; these experiences can indeed be the most formative.

Bobby

[siteseer]

Right, my grandfather blamed the decline of society on the Beatles (men with long hair playing weird music).

Yes, it appears that kids can't count or write but they know all the functions of their smartphones and tablets, all the abbreviations for Twitter, where to get free songs and movies, and how to navigate and defeat a hundred different games.

This is what the previous generation said about mine (except for the part about e-mail). The more things change, the more they remain the same.

[THobern]

My 2 cents: I find it interesting that people are being catered to so that their emotions are not harmed by education and new information. Part of the way we learn and advance as a society and as individuals is confronting uncomfortable and 'inconvenient' truths (no relation to global warming, just a really appropriate term in this case). One thing I face on a daily basis as a scientist is having my ideas and hypotheses challenged and tested; sometimes having a neat idea disproven can be a major bummer, but it is for the best to abandon poorly supported ideas. It is difficult and against our 'hard wiring' to divorce our brain from our heart and say 'adios' to ideas that are faulty, wrong, or just plain stupid. Often the most learning we do is when we are out of our comfort zone, learning new things outside our daily sphere of experience; these experiences can indeed be the most formative.

Bobby

Not so that emotions aren't harmed, but so that they aren't what is being tested.

[THobern]

By the way, this was only a proposal, and was recently retracted. But they stated their overall intentions;

“We will continue to advise companies to be sensitive to student backgrounds and avoid unnecessary distractions that could invalidate test scores and give an inaccurate assessment of how students are doing,"

[Boesse]

The intention of the test does matter, and sure, if it is to generally assess the learning of the students, fine. However, I think things like this should obviously not be ignored for a test in the actual course, as dealing with stress and ideas that may seem uncomfortable are probably important life skills to learn.

That being said, if enough students are upset about "dinosaurs" being mentioned in a test and score poorly, then that is a very real indication of poor education or progress within that class of students.