Paleoworld-101 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Hi Guys, Just thought id get an opinion or two on my fossil fish from the Green River's "18 inch layer". It's an 8 and a half inch Diplomystus Dentatus that i bought for 75 bucks from an ebay seller who prepares all his fossil fish himself. There was no mention of paint/restoration in the description and the guy seems very reputable but i can't help question if it has been painted. I would ask him myself but it's a bit weird to say "hey mate, you know that fish i got from you like 6 months ago? Yeah, um, was it painted?". So that's why i am asking here. What do you guys think? I've put close up pics of the whole fish as well as a full body shot. "In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..." -Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoworld-101 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 Last Pic- "In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..." -Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Your right to think it's been painted. Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foshunter Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 For sure,close up really shows that it has been painted--Tom Grow Old Kicking And Screaming !!"Don't Tread On Me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old dead things Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I beg to differ, I'm not totally convinced it was painted. Look at the close ups and you'll see scribe marks, if one was going to paint, he'd cover those too. It is sometimes difficult to tell, but perhaps a clear acrylic coat or something like vinac has been added to protect the bones, as over time, they will aborb moisture from the air and could fall off. I'd contact the seller. When we sell Green River fish, we tell our buyers that most of our fish have the clear acrylic on them. I know some think this enhances the fish, but we feel that it protects it. Check out the close ups on our website of Green River fish. www.olddeadthings.com Jim Old Dead Things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) This looks like a split layer fish that perhaps has had some Vinac applied to prevent flaking. I see no evidence that any of the brown is paint. Paint or stain would have also tended to seep into the matrix around the fossil. I see no evidence of this. At $75 this is a fair price for this fossil off ebay. I have seen them range from about $60 to $125. Specimens from the 18 inch layer go for more because in general they look nicer and take more skill to prep. Edited April 17, 2012 by Malcolmt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squali Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I beg to differ, I'm not totally convinced it was painted. Look at the close ups and you'll see scribe marks, if one was going to paint, he'd cover those too. It is sometimes difficult to tell, but perhaps a clear acrylic coat or something like vinac has been added to protect the bones, as over time, they will aborb moisture from the air and could fall off. I'd contact the seller. When we sell Green River fish, we tell our buyers that most of our fish have the clear acrylic on them. I know some think this enhances the fish, but we feel that it protects it. Check out the close ups on our website of Green River fish. www.olddeadthings.com Jim Old Dead Things I have to agree the colors appear natural but with a sealer applied. This can tend to darken the fossil but I feel it is needed if you are going to display it. Tiny bones and scales have a way of popping out over time. a $75.00 prepped fish like this is a steal. I have spent $50 for an unprepped Diplomystus and then spent another 20 hours working on it with a needle and it doesn't look this good. It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 It's just a photo on a cp screen but my gut says paint, but, not everywhere on it. Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeloiVarden Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I think you got a great deal eitherway. If painted, I don't know how they kept the paint from seeping out of the outline into the matrix. someone else mentioned this, but if it is painted, they did a good job. I do think it has some protectant on it, but most would elect for this if displaying anyway. I think it looks well worth the $75! PS, if your curious, just ask them. I have had folks contact me regarding stuff I have sold them when the suspected restoration. I was able reassure them that if it was restored it was only because someone restored the shark tooth and through it back in the river for me to recovery. But seriously, give them the benifit of the the doubt and a chance to address any of your concerns. Edited April 23, 2012 by DeloiVarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WanaBe Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I have the same problem, and can't tell if my fossil is painted or not. Would appreciate any help . http://s1299.beta.photobucket.com/user/DaWanaBe/library/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I agree.. no paint. Proabaly a layer of vinac or something to glue it all together... this on both fish in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 jpc beat me to a response, but I agree on his assessment. I think both fish are legit. I would proudly display either one. Their appearance is consistent with Green River fish I have prepped myself. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WanaBe Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Thanks guys, that was fast and helpful. This baby will be displayed in my office. Just for curiosity, what would be an actual value for it ( I can't remember how much I paid almost 15 yrs ago)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Value? Well it's nicely preserved, complete, framed and presents well. It's very decorative. While Diplomystus is a "common" fish in the Green River Formation, as a large predator, it is not the most common. The next consideration is size. While yours is a "healthy sized critter," Diplos get much bigger. Around 2 feet would be a big honkin' one. For valuation I recommend looking at fossil retailer's sites and on eBay until you see several of equal size/preservation. That will give you the best idea of what they are going for. In regard to displaying it, if you follow the simple steps below you will know more regarding Diplomystus than anyone showing up at your office! On this forum scroll down to the "Fossil Media" category; select "Documents;" Go to about "page 3;" look for the topic Paleontology of the Green River Formation, Bulletin 63; from there you can download a copy of this classic book - for free! This forum is great! Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I used to think the same thing when a friend gave me some Green River fish. Then I cut the stone down smaller and split some of the left-over rocks. I found several parts of fishes inside with the same look so that convinced me it was not painted. The Green River formation is on my list of must-visit sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WanaBe Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 This forum and its members are great. Really lot of information, good resorces, and wonderful help. I just remembered I have few more fossils in one of the boxes in my garage. Guess what I'll be doing this weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Dog Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Not painted. Nice diplo. That is not split fish layer. I'm betting 18 inch layer. Some of the quarries have petroleum in the matrix and this can give the fish a very dark color. In addition the rock is much harder. I have rough prepped a few pieces, and they are very dark. You can smell the oil while using a micro jack (I admit, I like the smell). Not all green river fish are the same, and I buy from only particular quarries because I like these dark fish. Now I can't say that there is no repair on that fish (It looks like some fins have been repaired -very typical), but it does not look inlayed, and looks like a fair fish. Tail and fin detail is not the best, but a good looking fish nevertheless. I am not an expert, but I am knowledgeable about green river a little bit. I have a house full of stuff to prove it -from tiny amphalaga, to rays, to insects...even some coprolites. Wanabe, yours looks fine too. Your tail has more detail which I like. Very possible both fish came from the same quarry, or certainly in the same vicinity. Edited February 19, 2013 by Atomic Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoworld-101 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Great to see that people are still giving their much valued opinions on this topic, thankyou so much everyone. "In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..." -Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowsharks Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Is there a non-destructive test that can be performed on specimens like this to see if there is paint? I often see folks here on TFF recommend certain "tests" like the hot-pin test on amber, or a lit-match to a piece of bone; is there a "chemical" that one could use on say the tip of a Q-tip and gently rub to see if paint comes off? I guess the owner would have to decide ahead of time how bad he/she wants to know if it has been painted if there's any risk to damaging the specimen during "testing". I think I've read in other posts where folks wanted to know so they could actually strip away the paint/pencil marks and resotre it back to "original". With regards to these fish specimens, it seems like knowledge about the dark brown color and what creates it would be beneficial and provide insight as to whether or not it is possible to obtain that color naturally or artificially. Either way, for $75 this looks like a real nice specimen to display. Daryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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