Northern Sharks Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Here are a couple of firsts for me: my first trilobite and ammonite. Hopefully in the spring I'll get out around here and add to this new area for me. Please let me know if they are mis-identified. There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Very cool :Thumbs-up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milou115 Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Hi Northern Sharks ! Very nice, I don't know the callovian stage but your Kosmoceras looks like Kosmoceras jason which is the index of a zone from middle callovian... Wait for the confirmation of the others because I don't know this ammonites a lot ! See you and good luck for your collection ! Mil' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Owens Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Here are a couple of firsts for me: my first trilobite and ammonite. Hopefully in the spring I'll get out around here and add to this new area for me. Please let me know if they are mis-identified. Nice start! :shades: -----"Your Texas Connection!"------ Fossils: Windows to the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cris Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Very nice stuff... I still have to get my first ammonite and trilobite.... I'd perfer to find them, but living in Florida, that's not gonna be easy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofossil Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 The trilobite is the correct family. I don't know about the ammonite. Hard to tell without examining the sutures. It's a good idea to research fossils if you are buying them. I'm not qualified to judge some phyla but do know particular groups of fossils and am startled by how much is misidentified on websites selling fossils. I get a kick out of some 'dino fossils'....especially being sold out of one website in Indiana...a lot of BALONEY.....in fact mostly BALONEY. Wrong families, ages and so on. It's also startling how generic material is identified down to the species. Some errors are so blatant that you realize a seller has little clue about what he is selling. What's disturbing is that most fossil sellers are not trying to deceive but are simply ignorant of what they have. The same bad identifications are passed along from owner to owner. I wince when I see a 'SOLD' stamp on top of a fossil that sold for 'x' dollars with the wrong I.D. Regardless, never buy a fossil without knowing where it is from. And that doesn't mean 'Madagascar' or 'Russia' but precisely where in Russia and from what formation. Otherwise it is no more than a pretty ornament. If a seller can't email you the location, formation and age then he didn't collect it and has received it 3rd or 4rth hand and there's a good chance it's mis-identified (even pased along illegaly). Once you receive the necessary info then do a Google search, post a photo here, etc, and try to confirm what you are receiving to be legitimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Very good information, it is crucial to do research before buying anything off the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 What's disturbing is that most fossil sellers are not trying to deceive but are simply ignorant of what they have. The same bad identifications are passed along from owner to owner. I wince when I see a 'SOLD' stamp on top of a fossil that sold for 'x' dollars with the wrong I.D. Nice specimens, NS! Private collector or museum, it is the responsibility of the new custodian to confirm the identification of any acquisition. A fossil dealer is just one link in that chain. Most dealers (I'm not talking about the frauds or those who already have "the truth") would be thrilled to have some authoritative feedback on a specimen he is offering for sale. I have sold many fossils over the years, and I cringe to think I have passed on misinformation with those fossils. I'd like to think that I have helped educate less-experienced collectors. The few of us here are not going to stamp out ignorance and fraud, but do a little bit whenever you can. -------Harry Pristis http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofossil Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Nice specimens, NS!Private collector or museum, it is the responsibility of the new custodian to confirm the identification of any acquisition. A fossil dealer is just one link in that chain. Most dealers (I'm not talking about the frauds or those who already have "the truth") would be thrilled to have some authoritative feedback on a specimen he is offering for sale. I have sold many fossils over the years, and I cringe to think I have passed on misinformation with those fossils. I'd like to think that I have helped educate less-experienced collectors. The few of us here are not going to stamp out ignorance and fraud, but do a little bit whenever you can. -------Harry Pristis Harry, I have no issue with folks selling or buying fossils. As you rightly state, a good dealer is one who is helping to build a collection, educate and so on. Unfortunately among some of the more expensive fossils, especially dinos, there is a lot of wishful thinking as to identifications. Also, among many imported fossils the information is often too vague or broad to be of much use. ...a lot of expensive Moroccan 'paper weights'. If someone is going to buy a shark tooth, ammonite, trilobite, echinoid, etc. then the most important info is where it was collected and not just that it comes from 'Kazakstan'. It's not hard to do a little homework via the web and narrow down the type of fossils, age etc. that supposedly come from a specific area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted November 18, 2007 Author Share Posted November 18, 2007 Geofossil: Would another picture be of any use to you for a better ID of the ammonite or is it something you'd need to see in person. The research I did seems to point to it being Kosmoceras, which is what I bought it as, but I'm no expert and am perfectly willing to hear others opinions. Thanks again for the help so far. There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofossil Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Geofossil: Would another picture be of any use to you for a better ID of the ammonite or is it something you'd need to see in person. The research I did seems to point to it being Kosmoceras, which is what I bought it as, but I'm no expert and am perfectly willing to hear others opinions. Thanks again for the help so far. Ammonites can rarely be identified by their appearance and with Jurassic ammonites it's usually never possible. It's easier to eliminate a genus than actually apply one. Ammonites are identified by their suture patterns and the horizon in which they are collected. An analogy is a penny. If you saw a shiny copper cent on the ground you wouldn't be able to tell if it was an American or Canadian penny. But if you found it in Texas or, instead in Ontario you could be fairly confident which counry it was from without examining it further. To take it further, if it was a Canadian penny and you wanted to know how old it was you would need to look at the date because 10 years of pennies might otherwise be identical. The sututre pattern on an ammonite is a bit like that date on the penny, helps to I.D. the specimen to a genus or species. Even the top Jurassic expert in the world couldn't confidently I.D. 98% of Jurasic ammonites to genus just by looking at it and not knowing the location and suture patterns...the same way a coin expert couldn't I.d. a shiny copper coin without knowing more info, the date, etc. Having said all this, if a specific layer of a cliff or quarry is known to produce a specific ammonite, then no need to question an I.D. But it is a very specific horizon. A few meters up or down could be the difference from middle to upper Bajocian in a Jurassic horizon and thus different species and possibly different genera. Later I'll post some photos of a half dozen genera of ammonites that look more or less the same but are from millions of years apart...only identifiable by suture patterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 I don't know much on ammonites but if you could get a really good close up picture of the suture pattern it may lead to a better ID. It could at least give you a couple of species to say your ammonite could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted November 18, 2007 Author Share Posted November 18, 2007 How's this????? There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofossil Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 I don't know much on ammonites but if you could get a really good close up picture of the suture pattern it may lead to a better ID. It could at least give you a couple of species to say your ammonite could be. The sutures are growth lines between the cephalopod chambers. As the ammonite grew it 'moved' into the next largest chamber. Suture marks are sometimes quite visible but on most specimens only seen up close. This is a suture pattern on a Baculites specise of ammonite. You might be able to find the sutures on these specimens.....squigly lines of valleys and ridges often visible where the outer shell is missing.. Each genus and species is identified by the suture marks between the chambers. Often (usually) they are not easily visible because of the outer shell. BUT....often there are no visible sutures as in: If you look real close at a specimen and can make out the sutures you can put a piece of scotch tape, etc. over the sutures and then precisely trace the pattern. Then you can go to a book of ammonites of the age, location, etc. and try to find a genus or species with the same pattern. What research papers are published on ammonites they show the sutures. an aside. If you find a broad, few coiled cephalopod, you can easily distinguish a nautiloid from an ammonite by the suture pattern. A nautilus suture is very simple...no more than a wavy line without a lot of detail. The specimen on the top is a nautilus and the one on the bottom an ammonite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted November 18, 2007 Author Share Posted November 18, 2007 Thanks for the nautilus/ammonite distinction, that would have been a future question. As far as sutures go, now that I know what I'm looking for, of course mine has none visible. Oh well. There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 you will need to look at it under a microscope then you may find what your looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy 55 Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Cool fossils !!!! :Thumbs-up: It's my bone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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