painshill Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Any ideas on this? It was found by a fellow artefact collector on the Montana/Idaho border in what is believed to be a Native American camp or rendezvous site. No stratigraphy to help here and it has been transported from its original location. Other lithic items were found with it and it has preferential wear to the tip which suggests it may have been used as a tool. My initial reaction was claw core from something like an allosaurid until the finder provided more pictures showing the deep striations on the other side and then I was doubtful. Any views greatly appreciated. Roger I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew);Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who [Rudyard Kipling] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgrilusHunter Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 What about a horn core? "They ... savoured the strange warm glow of being much more ignorant than ordinary people, who were only ignorant of ordinary things." -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 No idea but sure wish it was mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painshill Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 What about a horn core? Well, that's what the multiple striations would suggest, but it looks unusually squat and coming rapidly to a very sharp point for anything I recognise. It seems to have at least a partial basal end, so I would assume it's the major portion of the horn rather than the tip of something longer. Bovid horns were widely used as tools by Native Americans but normally hollowed out to created a gouge or scoop. Also sometimes as billets for flaking stone tools. But not with such a sharp tip, and I've never seen a fully lithified fossil one. Roger I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew);Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who [Rudyard Kipling] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgrilusHunter Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 ... but it looks unusually squat and coming rapidly to a very sharp point for anything I recognise ... I agree. I've been trying unsuccesfully to find a camparable online. I'll be interested what some of the vertebrate experts here think. "They ... savoured the strange warm glow of being much more ignorant than ordinary people, who were only ignorant of ordinary things." -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Painshill: I've never seen bison horn cores used as a billet for flaking - they are far too fragile and filled with spongey bone, rather than solid and dense, like an antler. I've tried flaking with just about any tool you can imagine. If you have pictures or a reference to a horn core thought to have been used as a billet, I'd love to see it. Rich The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I'm wondering if this might be part of a claw from a large sloth? They aren't usually so pointy, but.......... The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painshill Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 I'm wondering if this might be part of a claw from a large sloth? They aren't usually so pointy, but.......... Maybe, but never seen one like this. It's very conical in cross section versus the normal profile for sloth. Also doesn't seem to have that flattened area on the underside near the base that's typical for sloth. [Apologies for the "billet" reference. In a hasty blonde moment I muddled my antlers with my horns. Horn cores for sccops, gouges & ladles. Antlers (and bone or course) for billets.] Roger I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew);Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who [Rudyard Kipling] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) Megalonyx has a very flattened claw, but "Glossotherium" is nearly round in cross section. It was just a thought of something else to look at as a comparison. Rich Edited January 27, 2013 by RichW9090 The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 It's an interesting find, but hard to see some of the details in the photos. It seems like the side views show bits of shell...is it possible it isn't a vertebrate fossil at all? The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) I wondered if it might be a steinkern of a pelycepod like the sea-pen...... But it seems to be too round in cross section. Edited January 27, 2013 by RichW9090 The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Any other marine fossils in the area? Could it be horn coral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrehistoricFlorida Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I don't see anything about this piece which leads me to believe that it's from a vertebrate. www.PrehistoricFlorida.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old dead things Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'l take a chance I believe it is a pinna clam. I'm on my way to Tucson right now and don't have access to my photos, but have posted pinna pictures in the past. Jim Old Dead Things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painshill Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Thanks all. It for sure isn't horn coral. And thanks Rich and ODT (Jim)... after a serious amount of Googling, I think I am convinced by ODT's pinna clam suggestion. I also suspect that what looked like evidence of use-wear on the point is just the smooth hinge area of the shell where there are naturally no striations. Well I'm 99% convinced anyway... and I'll be 100% convinced if the finder provides pics of the 'sides' where I suspect there ought to be at least some residual signs of a lip or join between the the two halves of the shell. Edited January 28, 2013 by painshill Roger I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew);Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who [Rudyard Kipling] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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