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Moroccan Mosasaurs


jnoun11

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hi john

fossils from Moroccan phosphates are multitude on fossils shows, most of them are faked, but exist also a multitude of beautiful exquisite fossils, rare species , i choice vertebrates but its the same for invertebrates.

is because the customers are not specialist or thinks they can have rarity for peanuts ,the fossil market is full of fake.

i do this topics on Mosasaur in many other forum for helping fossils lovers to determinate their own fossils easily . i do in French , in German and in English.

ideally i will like to do for each species the complete anatomy on line ,available for free for everyone interested in vertebrates paleontology but it s huge work and i have so much work here ,i can not do that, also i m not scientist and i try my best to make the best preparation , mounting or determination . sometime i mounted wrong my own specimen ,and i correct years after years my work, so now i said to people ,what i show today is my last version until better knowledge . vertebrate paleontology is not a work , its a passion and lot of people do this job for money or without passion or to much ego and is not good for science . lot of people take my pictures and just copy but they miss in reconstitution of they fossils because they didn't take the time before preparation of the fossils to learn how to do the best work, people didn't read because most of the scientific publications are boring . and to much fossils dealers consider the customer is a idiot and it will never see what is fake or what is real.

customers rarely listen the good advices , they want easily buy some fossils, for the less money it s possible and they just want to show to friends how great they are ... even the dealer look friendly, vertebrates are not potatoes, when you buy one you must take your time, asking for pictures of the unprepared material ,or step of the cleaning process and when is doubt about one fossil...dont buy

i wish this topic will clean a little bit the market from the tricky dealers or bad people, morocco is a great country for fossils probably one of the best in a world , just be aware so the dealers will take more care of the fossils and the market will be full of great fossils from morocco.

enjoy the beauty and the diversity of life from past to today.

friendly

jnoun

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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett ...

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:goodjob:

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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Very well said, jnoun. Your topic has been "Pinned".

The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true.  -  JJ

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Wow!! thanks for taking the time to put this together, great job awesome pics... i've learned alot here, very interesting thank you

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Prognathodon solvayi

SYSTEMATIC PALEONTOLOGY

Order SQUAMATA Oppell, 1811

Family MOSASAURIDAE Gervais, 1853

Subfamily MOSASAURINAE Williston, 1897

Genus PROGNATHODON Dollo, 1889

*Prognathodon solvayi

= Prognathosaurus solvayi

note: This specimen is actually unique and didn t exist officially in Morocco

attachicon.gifDSCN6079.JPG

skull

attachicon.gifDSCN0636.JPG

close-up of teeth

I hope this one went into a museum or public collection. I doubt it is a Prognathodon. To me looks like the first complete skull of Platecarpus? ptychodon, a rare species so far only known from teeth. It needs to be scientifically described. Awesome specimens! Thanks for sharing...

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Platecarpus ptychodon

systematic paleontology

Reptilia Laurenti 1768

Squamata Oppel 1811

Mosasauridae Gervais 1853

Plioplatecarpinae Russell 1967

Platecarpus Cope 1869

Platecarpus ptychodon Arambourg , 1952
publication:
ARAMBOURG C. 1952. — Les vertébrés fossiles des gisements de phosphates (Maroc – Algérie – Tunisie). Notes et Mémoires du Service géologique du Maroc 92:1-372.
diagnosis :
small teeth with bicarinate higly laterally compressed crowns, subequal lingal and labial surfaces bearing verticals striations that are more numerous on the lingual face and developed only on the two thirds of the crown height. The dental morphology of P.ptychodon is quite distinct from those of other mosasaurids, such that this taxon (which was erected on the basis of isolated teeth only) is provisionally regarded as valid.
12 or 13 teeth on a dentary, 14 on a maxillary
skeleton
skull
close-up of the teeth

Ok just scrolled further down - and being amazed! You have a complete skeleton of P.? ptychodon...!!! Still I do not believe the other specimen is a Prognathodon. Maybe some other form of plioplatecarpine?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would seriously NOT want to meet one of those things swimming! :D

Very informative,

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen

No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go.

" I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes

"can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks

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  • 1 month later...

I had thought this might be a Halisaurus, but based on your images I wonder if it could be a Platecarpus ptychodon skull - do you (or others) have an opinion?

post-6717-0-99709400-1393156794_thumb.jpg

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Jnoun;

Thank you for this very informative post. I visited Morocco almost twenty years ago and found that your country is literally a treasure trove of fossils. I observed fossils being sold just about everywhere, without any scientific knowledge, as curios. I'l admit I bought a few cephalopods and a trilobite though I really wasn't into collecting back then. Since then I've seen lots of these fossils have made their way to the U.S. and today make up a large component of the market for fossil curios that are available at shops, shows and on the net. I too am impressed. This year I found a stream worn mosasaur tooth in New Jersey and count it among my best finds of the year. The fossils you show are incredible, but it's the scientific knowledge you share that I believe that transforms these remarkable specimens from curios to stories about life in prehistoric seas. By doing so I feel you give them the respect they and your beautiful country deserve. Thanks.

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Below are my collection of Upper Cretaceous Mosasaurus beaugei teeth (from the Ouled Abdoun Basin of Morocco) and a painting of the acutal marian reptile, which I posted awhile back. This might be the most famous mosasaur found in Morocco. I've also posted Enchodus (giant fish) teeth from the same area.

---- Olenellus

post-1777-0-18319400-1393295060_thumb.jpg

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Olenellus

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  • 1 month later...

Very good info,, thanks so much.

I'm just learning about Morocco mosasaurs, but have seen and collected a number here in Manitoba, Canada.

Our local musuem, the Canadain fossil Discovery Centre ( discoverfossils.com) has Canada's largest collection of mosasaurs, and a number of plesiosaurs,too.

Can you please comment on the apparent scarcity/rareness of plesiousaur fossils, especially skulls, from |Morocco?

We have very few skulls and tons of vertebrae, as usual.

But Morocco plesio skulls seem even rarer.

Thanks.

Joe.

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Hi Jnoun,

Years ago, when I started going to the Tucson shows, I was amazed by the diversity of mosasaur tooth types from the Moroccan phosphates. Being interested in sharks, I thought some of the teeth might have represented different jaw positions but some of the tooth forms did represent different genera, if not species.

Those are nice photos of the Prognathodon sp. skull. Where is that specimen on display? Do you know which publication (or publications) was used as a guide in preparing that skeleton? I have seen some nice figures for bones of other mosasaurs but have not seen many for Prognathodon sp. It does seem to be one of the more common forms from Morocco. Are there a number of well-prepped skulls or skeletons on display in Europe?

Thank you for taking the time to list and distinguish them for this forum. I had not seen a specimen of Eremiasaurus before.

Jess

Prognathodon .sp

SYSTEMATIC PALEONTOLOGY
Order SQUAMATA Oppell, 1811
Family MOSASAURIDAE Gervais, 1853
Subfamily MOSASAURINAE Williston, 1897
Genus PROGNATHODON Dollo, 1889

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Jnoun,

Years ago, when I started going to the Tucson shows, I was amazed by the diversity of mosasaur tooth types from the Moroccan phosphates. Being interested in sharks, I thought some of the teeth might have represented different jaw positions but some of the tooth forms did represent different genera, if not species.

Those are nice photos of the Prognathodon sp. skull. Where is that specimen on display? Do you know which publication (or publications) was used as a guide in preparing that skeleton? I have seen some nice figures for bones of other mosasaurs but have not seen many for Prognathodon sp. It does seem to be one of the more common forms from Morocco. Are there a number of well-prepped skulls or skeletons on display in Europe?

Thank you for taking the time to list and distinguish them for this forum. I had not seen a specimen of Eremiasaurus before.

Jess

hi jess

prognathodon is a most common specie in moroccan phosphates, but because the specie is allready studied, the specialists dont make revision of this huge groupe of reptiles. in europe is no well prepared skull from moroccans mosasaurs, because the people they prepared them dont care about anatomy and thinks nobody will see that. most of the people didnt care about correct anatomy, is to bad.

eremiasaurus is very rare mosasaur . adn i joint some internet links for more informations about prognathodon:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02724634.2011.601714#preview

https://www.google.com/#q=prognathodon+pdf&start=10

The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett ...

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Hi Jnoun11,

Thank you for your comments and the links.

Two weeks ago, I had a chance to see an unprepped mosasaur skull from the phosphates and I helped take part of it out of matrix. It was crushed with some of the bones shifted over to one side so it was time-consuming to separate the bones and teeth. The jaws were pressed tightly against each other. If anyone is going to be working on one, make sure you harden the bone surface as you clean it. As is often the case, the bones are more fragile than they look.

Jess

hi jess

prognathodon is a most common specie in moroccan phosphates, but because the specie is allready studied, the specialists dont make revision of this huge groupe of reptiles. in europe is no well prepared skull from moroccans mosasaurs, because the people they prepared them dont care about anatomy and thinks nobody will see that. most of the people didnt care about correct anatomy, is to bad.

eremiasaurus is very rare mosasaur . adn i joint some internet links for more informations about prognathodon:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02724634.2011.601714#preview

https://www.google.com/#q=prognathodon+pdf&start=10

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  • 1 month later...

hi mosasaurs lovers

another new mosasaur in moroccans phosphates. look like prognathodon little ,but the teeth are weird... if somebody have a determination about this specimen, welcome.

post-2284-0-25053800-1401826334_thumb.jpg

post-2284-0-92509600-1401826376_thumb.jpg

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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett ...

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  • 1 month later...

It's the same ?

hi mister tartoche

your specimen is halisaurus arambourgi, is differents , on my specimen the teeth are lateraly compressed.

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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett ...

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  • 4 months later...

Hey Jnoun,

Some while ago .. I came across this in Morocco, I guess it's a kind of Prognatodon?

nose:

post-10068-0-27397000-1418923059_thumb.jpg

sclerotic ring:

post-10068-0-84885700-1418923060_thumb.jpg

skull:

post-10068-0-37995500-1418923063_thumb.jpg

Edited by Fitch1979
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hi fitch and dinoboy

it s a joung prognathodon, very nice specimen, the sclerotic ring is superb. unfortunatly prognathodon in morocco is not studied yet. and lot of scientific work about phosphates material are incomplete. i can not going further for the specie. nobody is a walking encyclopaedia , after 200 years of mosasaurs studies nobody can give a correct definition of mosasaurs...

congratulation for this specimen fitch.

http://bsgf.geoscienceworld.org/content/183/1/7.abstract

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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett ...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hope this doesn't count as a topic hi-jack since it's about a Mosasaur tooth ID which I am conflicted between Prognathodon, Beaugei or Platecarpus but isn't sure or knowledgeable enough to decide conclusively, here is what it looks like:

post-10857-0-16637000-1421427027_thumb.jpgpost-10857-0-85009400-1421427052_thumb.jpgpost-10857-0-96678500-1421427183_thumb.jpg

I actually started another thread in this link regarding the questioning of the ID of this tooth, here is the link in case it's more appropriate to discuss there, though I figured the Mosasaur experts will probably be in this thread:

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/51849-mosasaur-tooth-beaugei-or-platecarpus/

Anyway, any input and insight from the mosasaur experts here will be appreciated. Thx in advance :)

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