Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Hunting a late cretaceous Sardis formation in Decatur co. Tn last weekend, i happened up on this unusual specimen. It was already eroded out of its original layer and was in creek wash sediments. No other formations are exposed @ this locality....but i've never yet found crinoids in something of that age either. Upon finding this specimen, i @ first thought i was looking @ maybe some sort of dental plate, inspecting it futher i thought it might be a bunch of single segments of a crinoid??? I've never found crinoids that fall apart in piles like that......what is this stuff? Edited March 4, 2014 by Tennessees Pride --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) In my opinion yes, those are crinoids stem segments. Let me snap a picture of a specimen of mine. Here's a few of my vast crinoid collection show how they break apart in sections, it's quite normal. Edited March 4, 2014 by fossilized6s ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 In my opinion yes, those are crinoids stem segments. Let me snap a picture of a specimen of mine. Here's a few of my vast crinoid collection show how they break apart in sections, it's quite normal. 2014-03-04_00-16-59_319.jpg Nice examples man. That's just strange how a plant can fall to pieces like a cone or something... --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I've found a lot of fossils so far, but i just Love crinoids! They come in so many shapes, sizes, colors. At one time i wanted to own the largest privately owned crinoid collection....one can dream. Lol ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Guess i always had a thing for em too...be down there in the driveway waiting to catch the bus in the morning....cramming crinoids in my pockets...then couldn't get to my snack money....leave no crinoids behind!!! --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lissa318 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 http://www.smithlifescience.com/Crinoids.htm They are actually not plants but animals! Thought you might be interested in reading this. Nice examples man. That's just strange how a plant can fall to pieces like a cone or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erose Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 There are several crinoids found in the Cretaceous here in Texas and I know of a few from the east coast. My only qualifier would be that as a rounded stone the piece could be river gravel and the stone originally from much older rock where crinoids would normally be more abundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hey Lissa, thanks for pointing that out, i sure didn't know it....always thought crinoids were a form of ancient seaweed or something... --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lissa318 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 You're welcome! I learn new things on here daily so figured I'd share some knowledge. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Erose, thanks for your input on this specimen,...the formation this specimen came from around,i've been studying pretty hard lately...trying to figure out exactly how it was deposited.... I've about convinced myself that deposition of those sediments that make that formation were all laid down in one single event....& the formation is about 70 ft. thick!....it would seem to me to be the product of a HUGE tidal wave, and the sediments i'm looking @ were deposited as all of the seawater from the initial impact was draining back into the sea....if that's right, the lithology of the formation is probably very mixed up w/ several different time periods of artifacts redeposited in this one single event. IDK, but that's what i'm leaning toward right now... --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Crinoids are actually still living today in the deep seas of the World!! They aren't as diverse as they once were, but they are truly a living fossil! ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) You're welcome! I learn new things on here daily so figured I'd share some knowledge. lol By all means, please share with me anytime! it's hard to make great contributions to science if one can't see the whole picture clearly. Edited March 4, 2014 by Tennessees Pride --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Crinoids are actually still living today in the deep seas of the World!! They aren't as diverse as they once were, but they are truly a living fossil! I thought i'd heard something about there were still living representives. --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 IF the crinoid segment specimen is native to the stratum under study, the fact that they are disarticulated suggests other than rapid burial. I suspect that it's a "floater" from an older formation. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 IF the crinoid segment specimen is native to the stratum under study, the fact that they are disarticulated suggests other than rapid burial. I suspect that it's a "floater" from an older formation. I think that's gonna be pretty close to the truth. I've bee probeing this formation everywhere i can find an outcrop....& when petrified wood can be inspected in it "in situ", it looks like bombs just blowed the stuff completely to pieces!!!.....while still green!!! It's hard to imagine the energy that was required to produce those results! Also, i haven't even found the first burrow in the whole formation......it's like everything died right there!. I'm enclosing some pics of the pet wood in situ....these are not good pics, i excavated it from underwater, so everything is covered in mud....my fingers are pointing to pieces of wood....this is all the same wood from the same tree i'm sure....these pics will be enough however to see what i'm talking about....looks like somebody just took a pile of chips limbs, ect. Andjust throwed it on the ground, then covered it up. So far, i have collected over 100 pd. Of this material from that single source...it is all the same wood from the same tree!but something just tore it all to pieces and left it in a jumbled pile, and it was quickly covered up.....strange --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 A few more shots. --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 This is the total amount of wood collected from that single tree to date.....virtually every piece was positioned in a different direction & angle... --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Pretty high energy, either at, or sometime after, deposition. Is there any geologic evidence to either suggest or belie that it's been reworked? Not that I know specifically what to look for, other than something that doesn't quite fit with one or the other scenario... "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think if something blew the tree apart the pieces would be scattered every where. But depending on how far down they were found (which it doesn't look that deep) the splintering could just be from the constant freezing and thawing of the top soil to the frost line (about 4' deep), especially if there were stress fractures in the pet. wood to begin with. Just a theory though..... 1 ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squali Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Erose, thanks for your input on this specimen,...the formation this specimen came from around,i've been studying pretty hard lately...trying to figure out exactly how it was deposited.... I've about convinced myself that deposition of those sediments that make that formation were all laid down in one single event....& the formation is about 70 ft. thick!....it would seem to me to be the product of a HUGE tidal wave, and the sediments i'm looking @ were deposited as all of the seawater from the initial impact was draining back into the sea....if that's right, the lithology of the formation is probably very mixed up w/ several different time periods of artifacts redeposited in this one single event. IDK, but that's what i'm leaning toward right now... I found a good paper on the Mississippi embayment explaining the transgressive cycle of the Sardis formation and the related formations. Unfortunately the paper is over 2mb. It is worth noting that occasionally Paleozoic fossils are found in Cretaceous streams in New Jersey. It is thought they were brought down as erosional artifacts from glacial melt during regressive periods. http://www.gsa.state.al.us/documents/pubs/onlinepubs/Reprint.../RS106.PDF The authors provide evidence indicating sea level fluctuations but not the mechanism driving the fluctuations. Edited March 4, 2014 by squali It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Outstanding job Squali!!! I have noticed the exact same thing in Mississippi @ the Frankstown shark tooth site...collectivly known as Frankstown Sand...which is very near the horizon in question. They have found thousands of shark teeth @ that area, but it seems the only explanition as to how so many teeth could be present in one spot, is that it is signs of reworked sediments...even after Cretaceous i think. --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Pretty high energy, either at, or sometime after, deposition. Is there any geologic evidence to either suggest or belie that it's been reworked? Not that I know specifically what to look for, other than something that doesn't quite fit with one or the other scenario... As far as i can tell about this most of the pet wood, i presume it to not be evidence of rework, but were fresh (alive) when deposition took place. Only sporatic lil trifles like the probable crinoid specimen are signs of rework. Last year i did find a large quartz specimen alittle bigger than a grapefruit, thought it was a gastrolith, but have changed my mind,theres no telling where that thing came from, i removed it from its original placement in the formation. There is nothing else like that in the formation. Sediments would for the most part remind one of a slow transgressive sea. As, there's not alot of variation in the whole formation, and primary componets are sand and a lime type substance that hasn't turned to a good firm clay, but i am at a loss to explain the stark unconformity between it & the formation below it! Its hard to see what i'm talking about @ contact in a vertical view, but in one good place i have saw the contact in horizonal view. Looks like somebody just took some of both formations and throwed em in a blender. Then ya go through 70 ft of a very consolidated homogenus formation. Hard to explain, the tidal wave may not have had the proportions i am thinking, but surely there was one, the only other suggestion i could see that would make the formation so abruptly maybe, was a serious tetonic movement...all of the earth just droping a couple hundred yards or more suddenly. --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think if something blew the tree apart the pieces would be scattered every where. But depending on how far down they were found (which it doesn't look that deep) the splintering could just be from the constant freezing and thawing of the top soil to the frost line (about 4' deep), especially if there were stress fractures in the pet. wood to begin with. Just a theory though..... That is a very interesting observation, and surely it does happen like that in nature, but i don't think that was the mechanism @ play in this instance. And i do agree w/ you that it hadn't been blowed apart, what i'm trying to envision happened was something kinda like would be compared to a mud-slide or avalanche even....a big mass of sediments, rocks, trees, and whatever else...steadly pushing forward because of the weight of debris behind it,as momentum slows down, it kinda "grinds" to a halt....that's what i'm trying to envision what happened to that wood....it might have went nothing like that. --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcraft Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Your formation sounds like the maritime version of our McNairy sandstone. Ours is a riverine deposit, but contains petrified wood, lignite, leaf impressions, and even the rare trackway. When the embayment moved into this area, our deposit becomes the owl creek. The owl creek ends when the impactor ended the cretaceous. There is evidence of tsunami wash. I encourage you to read Dr. Tambra Eifert's dissertation on the subject. You can download it at seismo.device.mst.edu/GG/pubs/06.pdf I am sending this from my tablet, so it may not link. You can also google "tambra eiffert tsunami" to find it. fkaa ashcraft, brent allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcraft Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I was also going to comment on the petrified wood. I have collected a number of pieces from the McNairy, that looks very similar to yours. They are extremely brittle along the growth lines. Finding them scattered like that is not unusual. fkaa ashcraft, brent allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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