tracer Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 big and old proximal end of a rib, shown next to a much smaller rib believed to be bison. pleistocene. much larger and thicker and denser than any other ribs we've found in the area. i've posted in the past asking whether short sections of thick rib we've found with no apparent cancellous bone in the center could be from whales or what. but this rib is even larger and does have cancellous bone in it. i really don't think it's of marine origin. so whaddaya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nicholas Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Whale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 when we are talking about something that size I think you must go with whale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 ok, let me frame my question a bit better in hopes of some clarification. it is my understanding that most mammal ribs have a "head" and a "tubercle" or whatever you wish to call them that constitute two attachment points - one attaches to the body of the appropriate vertebrae and the other attaches to the transverse/lateral process. it is my further understanding that cetacean ribs have only one head, which attaches to the transverse/lateral process. IF that is correct, and IF the rib section i've shown above is actually the proximal end, then it would seem that the correct conclusion to be drawn would be that it is cetacean in origin. however, i have not viewed enough ribs to know what the distal attachment point, if any, to the sternum looks like, and to make a bad analogy, i'd hate to think i'm wondering where the teeth are when i'm looking at the butt. thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 ok, let me frame my question a bit better in hopes of some clarification. it is my understanding that most mammal ribs have a "head" and a "tubercle" or whatever you wish to call them that constitute two attachment points - one attaches to the body of the appropriate vertebrae and the other attaches to the transverse/lateral process. it is my further understanding that cetacean ribs have only one head, which attaches to the transverse/lateral process. IF that is correct, and IF the rib section i've shown above is actually the proximal end, then it would seem that the correct conclusion to be drawn would be that it is cetacean in origin. however, i have not viewed enough ribs to know what the distal attachment point, if any, to the sternum looks like, and to make a bad analogy, i'd hate to think i'm wondering where the teeth are when i'm looking at the butt.thoughts? yes most mammal ribs do have a head and a tubercle or whatever you wish to call them but some only have the head as you said, (will add text later) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I don't know, that doesn't exactly look like any mysticete rib I've ever seen. The tubercle is usually not that round, and more of a 'bump' so to speak, with a very long, narrow neck. I'd say its something else. Then again, ribs aren't terribly diagnostic for anything, except maybe sirenians. Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I don't know, that doesn't exactly look like any mysticete rib I've ever seen. The tubercle is usually not that round, and more of a 'bump' so to speak, with a very long, narrow neck.I'd say its something else. Then again, ribs aren't terribly diagnostic for anything, except maybe sirenians. Bobby but the condition doesnt help very much, hmm could I show you a picture of a rib I thought to be whale, the tuubercle is extremely round and the bone is very dense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 thanks for the replies. i realize that i've posted quite a bit of "junk" over the last six months or so that can't be readily identified, but i have a rather insatiable curiousity about trying to research and identify from which animals tj and i have found fossils, and i do appreciate whatever input we get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 thanks for the replies. i realize that i've posted quite a bit of "junk" over the last six months or so that can't be readily identified, but i have a rather insatiable curiousity about trying to research and identify from which animals tj and i have found fossils, and i do appreciate whatever input we get. nothing is junk when it comes to fossils! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy 55 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I am not sure on this one either but whale would be a good guess. But to me it has the look of elephant on it also. Here are some elephant rib pictures. It's my bone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 thanks worthy, for the pictures and the thought. i agree with you. i've gotten some counsel that it probably isn't cetacean in origin, so logically it's probably proboscidean. it would be nice if i would occasionally find the "cool" fossils in pieces large enough to be definitely identified, but i'll try to just be happy that i'm somewhere were i can find some stuff. i'm still having a great time in my mind with thinking of all the things that have gone before and lived in my area, and i never knew it until relatively recently. i find it quite fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I am not sure on this one either but whale would be a good guess. But to me it has the look of elephant on it also. Here are some elephant rib pictures. i have one issure with the elephant id, it looks like the elephant ribs are flat the rib tracer found is square/round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 each set of ribs from front to back are a different shape, so there's quite a bit of variation between ribs, even on a single animal. i'm guessing the rib i have is perhaps from a "floating rib" near the caudal (tail) end of the animal. look at the proximal ends of fourth thru sixth ribs from the caudal end on this elephant skeleton... phlat phant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Cetacean ribs generally 1) don't have a circular cross section, 2) aren't very dense, and 3) do not have spherical tubercles. This is more likely to be something else; possibly sirenian, but it ain't whale. Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 i believe it's too massive to be sirenian. i have found three or four pieces of what i believe are sirenian ribs, and online searching indicates that at least manatees have in the past been in the areas i frequent, but those rib pieces aren't as big and don't appear to have cancellous interior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Cetacean ribs generally 1) don't have a circular cross section, 2) aren't very dense, and 3) do not have spherical tubercles. This is more likely to be something else; possibly sirenian, but it ain't whale.Bobby yea i dont think its whale, sirenian would fit but the bone I have has pores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now