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First Find - What Is It?


Gordywahl

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Hi,

I took my two sons (9 and 7) on a fossil hunt this week in Montana. We really have no idea yet what we are doing, but found a book "Roadside Geology of Montana". We found this in the Sun River Canyon near Gibson Dam. I believe the rock may be cretaceous limestone, and I thought it might be an ammonite but this is smooth and looks like none of the pictures I've seen posted.

Any help?

Thanks,

Gordy

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Wow! Great catch for a rookie!

Fossil on right is nautiloid?

Fossil on left needs to be exposed more, but maybe the same thing.

Edit:

Doh! that IS the same fossil in all three photos. The nautiloid has popped out.

Edited by tmaier
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The fossil on the right does look like some sort of a cephalopod. If the rock there is Cretaceous then it is an ammonite. Some different angles in the other fossil would be helpful for identification. Nice finds

Doh. What the guy above me said. It's getting late here and I'm confused- I'll see if those all look like the same fossil again tomorrow...

Edited by Pumpkinhead
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Cool! Im not the best at IDing inverts, but it does look like a coiled Cephalopod.

Congrats!

~Charlie~

"There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK
->Get your Mosasaur print
->How to spot a fake Trilobite
->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all 3 photos are the same specimen, with the 3rd photo showing the fossil cracked out of the rock.

I am a bit mystified why everybody seems to feel this fossil is a cephalopod. I don't see any sign of suture lines or camerae (chambers). Also, the shell seems to be relatively thick and calcitic, not like any ammonite shell I'm familiar with.

I think the specimen is a large planispirally coiled snail, either Straparollus something close to that. These snails are common in certain Pennsylvanian and Permian limestones.

Don

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...I think the specimen is a large planispirally coiled snail...

This idea better fits the available evidence, IMHO.

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all 3 photos are the same specimen, with the 3rd photo showing the fossil cracked out of the rock.

I am a bit mystified why everybody seems to feel this fossil is a cephalopod. I don't see any sign of suture lines or camerae (chambers). Also, the shell seems to be relatively thick and calcitic, not like any ammonite shell I'm familiar with.

I think the specimen is a large planispirally coiled snail, either Straparollus something close to that. These snails are common in certain Pennsylvanian and Permian limestones.

Don

My thoughts too - are erratics of that age possible there?

Tarquin

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Not a Gastropod, looks a lot like a Carboniferous Nautiloid but could be a Cretaceous Ammonite. The only way to tell is by examining the suture pattern and the placement of the siphuncle. A photo of the broken ends might give enough detail to see. Also the inner wholes might show some detail. Also look at the rock itself and see if there are any other fossils in the Limestone a clam or brachiopod or other fossil could give a clue to the age.

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I also agree with Don's ID of gastropod. Besides Cretaceous, Sun River Canyon also has Paleozoic possibilities listed in this report:

 

 

Mudge, M.R. (1972).

Structural geology of the Sun River Canyon and adjacent areas, northwestern Montana

USGS Survey Professional Paper, 663B:1-52

 

LINK

 

 

 

image.png.a84de26dad44fb03836a743755df237c.png

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That report listed a great deal of Mississippian age units, the majority was lower Mississippian. Here is Vestinautilus from the Lower Mississippian of Kentucky and are common in other lower Mississippian units around the County. With out examining the sutures (or lack of them) I can not be sure but it has the same general shape.

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Just as Don predicted, one of the formations from the USGS report has Straparollus sp. in the Mississippian.

Here's the record from Paleobiology Database:

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Gordywahl, a clear close up photo of the specimen showing the whorls would help settle the question. Unfortunately the whorls are in shadow in photo 3, which makes details a bit hard to see.

From what I can see from photo 3, the shell remained attached to the matrix and the free specimen shows an internal cast of the inner whorls. I see no sign of sutures, which should be quite evident on an internal cast. However a clear photo in good light would make the issue unambiguous.

Don

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Enhanced:

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(click to enlarge)

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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I stand corrected. Now that I'm looking closer I don't see any sutures or other indications that it's an ammonite. I was just assuming cretaceous....I agree now with the gastropod diagnosis.

 

Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger

http://www.steinkern.de/

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Wow you guys, thanks so much. Yes, all three photos are the same specimen, the one on the right is the fossil removed from the matrix. When I first found it we thought ammonite too, but no suture lines at all. And yes this rock had other small shell like bits, also found other similar rocks nearby that were clearly clamshells.

Any idea of the age of this?

Edited by Gordywahl
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