Pterosaur Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Hi forum, I have seen numerous mammoth teeth from the North Sea and would like to know what the brown material that often covers them is. Looks like caramel to me. Thanks! Lauren "I am a part of all that I have met." - Lord Alfred Tennyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 It's called cementum. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pterosaur Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Ok thank you. In the pictures I've shown, has the dentin worn away? Edited October 23, 2014 by Aerodactyl "I am a part of all that I have met." - Lord Alfred Tennyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 In mammoth teeth, the center of each plate of enamel has a core of dentin. The enamel plates with the dentin cores are held together by cementum. This cementum also encases the whole tooth before it emerges. It is worn away on the occlusal surface when the tooth rotates into battery. As a fossil, the thin covering of cementum is easily lost. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpevahouse Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) I always wondered about the dark coating on some fossils too, especially those from the ocean. On vacation at the shore this summer I noticed shells and stones washed up along the shore line had basically the same dark coating to different degrees. There are also small pieces of dark organic material that wash up with each wave. I concluded that the bottom of the ocean, though mostly sand, also contains organic material from decayed plants like stream beds. The rare examples of mastodon molars I've seen from off shore NJ which do not have this dark coating appear to have been exposured on the bottom whereas their surface was worn away by sand and current action. The color and surface coating of fossils from the North Sea is a consequence of being buried thousands of years in nutrient and mineral rich sediments on the bottom. I don't see what cementum has to do with the surface coating? Edited October 23, 2014 by jpevahouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 ... The color and surface coating of fossils from the North Sea is a consequence of being buried thousands of years in nutrient and mineral rich sediments on the bottom. I don't see what cementum has to do with the surface coating? I've already explained how the cementum wraps the exterior of a mammoth tooth. If you think that I am wrong in my explanation, do some research and present your evidence. Guesswork and intuition is not serving you well in this case. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpevahouse Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I've already explained how the cementum wraps the exterior of a mammoth tooth. If you think that I am wrong in my explanation, do some research and present your evidence. Guesswork and intuition is not serving you well in this case. My comment was about the general dark coloration of most fossil bone found in the ocean, also stream beds. I assumed the original question was more general about the color of fossil bone. I think a lot of collectors wonder how and why the color of fossils becomes what they are after thousands of years under warter or ground. I know very little about cementun, which is just about as much as I want to know. A lot of the uisers of this forum are novice or casual collectors interested in learning basics about their finds but have no expectation of absorbing the vast amount of knowlege of paleontologists. Speaking to people as if they are expected to know technical scientific terminology must be very discouraging to some people who just want a simple answer to a simple question, which can often be very diffficult or impossible here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Hey guys I have a tooth from the north sea as well and had the same sort of question that Lauren had but a bit different. I remember when I first started collecting in the 60 ' s I drowned some crumbling invert specimens with polyurethane to preserve them and over the years they retained the shiney coat but turned yellow brown. The mammoth tooth I have now has a similar shiney coating..do either of u know what that is? I haven't really paid attention to the discussions about butvar and the other preservatives for preserving bone/teeth..suppose I should go look and using a phone to search is a pain....Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Here's a closeup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 jpevahouse posted Today, 07:49 AM My comment was about the general dark coloration of most fossil bone found in the ocean, also stream beds. I assumed the original question was more general about the color of fossil bone. I think a lot of collectors wonder how and why the color of fossils becomes what they are after thousands of years under warter or ground. I know very little about cementun, which is just about as much as I want to know. A lot of the uisers of this forum are novice or casual collectors interested in learning basics about their finds but have no expectation of absorbing the vast amount of knowlege of paleontologists. Speaking to people as if they are expected to know technical scientific terminology must be very discouraging to some people who just want a simple answer to a simple question, which can often be very diffficult or impossible here. If learning is uncomfortable for you, jpevahouse, maybe you're in the wrong place. This is a science-oriented forum where learning is a goal. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 The "caramel" material inquired about and seen on the original photo above is cementum, as Harry pointed out. Introducing new terminology in the friendly discussion of fossils is one of the benefits we enjoy here. I have to look new terms up on Google all the time. There is a portion of the cementum still attached to this river find. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 If learning is uncomfortable for you, jpevahouse, maybe you're in the wrong place. This is a science-oriented forum where learning is a goal. I think that is uncalled for. A little kindness goes a long way even on a science based forum. Meanwhile, back to the topic. Welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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