howard_l Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I don't buy fossils very often but I keep an eye on ebay to see what some people are putting out there. Today I was looking at cephalopods and I saw what looked like a Cretaceous ammonite being described as Ordovician. Another thing that caught my eye was it was described as an ammonite which we all know could not be in the Ordovician. For the heck of it I contacted the seller and asked where it was found, He said he got it as a gift from a place in Penn. He was asking 39.99 for it. For the heck of it I googled cretaceous ammonite and I got a big surprise. I found a page for a store, Prehistoric Planet, they had advertised a replica of some Cretaceous Ammonites on a slab from Australia for 8 dollars. I have a picture comparing the two. The one on the right is the replica from Prehistoric Planet the one on the left is the described Ordovician from Ebay. Maybe the seller doesn't know this is a replica but at least look up and get at least the Era right. Howard_L http://triloman.wix.com/kentucky-fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 What a twisted road we tread... Good catch! Did you tell the seller about your discovery? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard_l Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 No I didn't think it was my place in the venue. Howard_L http://triloman.wix.com/kentucky-fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) I'd like to find one of those in the Ordovician. Of course, the seller might not be dishonest, just an idiot. Edited October 30, 2014 by Herb "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The 'Ordovician' 'fossil' looks stylized and the details on the 'matrix' look mannered, kind of like fake fossils in fake rock one would see while standing in line to get on the dinosaur ride at Disney World. The piece from Prehistoric Planet looks more like a true cast replica. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooth_claw Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I thought I recognised this...here's one I bought for $2 a few years ago, it's resin and has a magnet glued on to the back. Does anyone know the original specimen details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painshill Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 ... Does anyone know the original specimen details? Everyone that sells them (and there are a lot of vendors) references them as Toxaceratiode sp. from the Cretaceous Doncaster Formation, Walsh River, Queensland. Interesting that they all have the same mis-spelling, which must have arisen at the original wholesale source. It’s Toxoceratoides Spath 1924 from the Walsh River Roma Series, which dates as Gargasian or Bedoulian (= Middle Aptian) on the basis of ammonoid biostratigraphy and between 125.5 - 112.6 Ma. The primary reference is: F. W. Whitehouse. 1926. The Cretaceous Ammonoidea of Eastern Australia. Memoirs of the Queensland Museum 8(3):195-242 [A. Hendy/A. Hendy] and it was Whitehouse who named the distinctive fauna of the Doncaster Member as the “Roma Fauna”. Predominantly heteromorphs including Tropaeum, Australiceras, Tonohamites, Toxoceratoides, Sanmartinoceras and Aconeceras. I would guess the better quality casts are probably from the original specimen in the Queensland Museum and the others are unauthorised second and third generation duplicates. 1 Roger I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew);Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who [Rudyard Kipling] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooth_claw Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks painshill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Actually I wouldn't mind one of those fakes. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossedmoon Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 There's a BIG problem with eBay. I thought I'd play with one of the sellers and asked if she could verify the authenticity of one of those turtle plates that are going like hot cakes; of course she couldn't. I also emailed another seller and told him that China banned the export of fossils in 2010 and he promptly removed the trilobite he was hawking as genuine. Don't get me wrong, there are some fantastic fossils to be had on eBay at killer prices, but if it looks too good to be true, that's because it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossedmoon Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 And as long as I'm on it, eBay makes the statement... "Seller assumes all responsibility." They HAVE to be aware of certain dealers perpetuating fraud, not to mention black marketing. But eBay is no fossil dealer and it's a can of worms for sure; then again, they make a lot of money for allowing the status quo to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Is this a common occurrence, or is it pretty rare? If a novice collector were to buy 10 fossils, how many of them would be fake? I don't buy fossils or shop on ebay, so you sound like a person who would have that knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlichia Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 From these two pictures an expert or some can be seen at once that there are two replicas, the seller "maybe" in any case understand that they are replies...., first of all for an expert seller the price is too low for the heteromorph ammonites "complete" and for a not expert seller then when holding a piece of plastic any person understands that "it is plastic and not rock".....so is probable that he know (expert or not) that is a replica but he haven't write.... ->>>>> < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossedmoon Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 There are reputible dealers on eBay and I have bought fossils there. I like to see a percentage, like 2% repairs for trilobites (they just don't come out of the ground perfectly intact), and I stay away from certain countries of origin. I prefer bugs and such from Wyoming, the Green River Formation, Oklahoma, Canada, etc. I'm no expert, so this is pretty much how I look for stuff when buying. I also look for sellers who prep what they market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I have purchased a few fossils from E-bay (stuff I can't get myself) and so far I have not had any issues. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossedmoon Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Can you relate as to what fossils you bought off of eBay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard_l Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 I have been collecting mostly nautiloids and will look on ebay for ages of ones I can't find near by. I like to look for mis-identified nautiloids that are under other descriptions such as fossil snails or gastropods. I found a huge Devonian coiled nautiloid someone found in Iowa and was calling a fossil snail. No one bid on it and I won it on a low bid. Howard_L http://triloman.wix.com/kentucky-fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossedmoon Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Pretty nice. There's so much Indian lands around here, it's slim pickings. I've had the best luck in my own back yard. I love a good find, whether it's local or eBay. I get to study it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlichia Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Is this a common occurrence, or is it pretty rare? If a novice collector were to buy 10 fossils, how many of them would be fake? I don't buy fossils or shop on ebay, so you sound like a person who would have that knowledge. For my personal experience is pretty rare that someone sell fake fossils for original fossils on ebay, I too have bought many times and have always been pleased, especially for things that I could never find in person or for the long-distance. First of all if you can't see better the photos that they showed in the sale page of the auctions, you can ask others "detailed" photos, so you can understand for the particular suture of the fossil or of the stone, preservation, details how for example the eyes of the trilobites, how the suture of the ammonites, how the scales of the fishes, the typical cracks of the calcite or aragonite or other minerals that is preserved the fossil, the color and the transparency of the mineral preservation or the color of the stone, that the plastic or resin can't have or is impossible to create in a plastic clone. Every type of replica's are painted so you can see the difference from a original natural fossils to a plastic painted, see on the net the replica's, is not difficult see the difference from every type of stones and the unnatural resin. I think like many people, I was also a victim of such purchases of trilobites fake applied to the original rock, after realizing that the color of the trilobite was like tar or black paint applied over after seeing the typical adhesive between trilobite and rock noticing the different color, after noticing the small circular bubbles burst on the trilobite and after trying to burn it with the fire and I saw smoke, I realized that I had bought a fake trilobite.....But this happened to me about 20 years ago, when the "black" Devonian trilobites from Morocco arrived out rarely complete and the few originals were very grossly impaired or eroded. Is now very different and trilobites originals from Morocco are many, perhaps there are a lot of gluing sometimes, what tolerated, and the reconstructions of the pleura or cheeks or other parts of the anatomy can be seen from the resin to the original just for colors, However if you come across a doubt, and after your research you are still not satisfied it is best to avoid buying, rather than risk buying a fake, or a recommendation by a expert friend could help you. ->>>>> < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard_l Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 I know not everyone can do this but the best way to not get fake fossils is to go to the outcrop and collect them yourself. Howard_L http://triloman.wix.com/kentucky-fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I know not everyone can do this but the best way to not get fake fossils is to go to the outcrop and collect them yourself. But watch out for the ones stamped "Made in Hong Kong". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard_l Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Or the ones that are salted like Herb has been finding in Indiana. Howard_L http://triloman.wix.com/kentucky-fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossedmoon Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I know not everyone can do this but the best way to not get fake fossils is to go to the outcrop and collect them yourself. True, but the older you get the harder that becomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 the ammonites have purchased have been as described. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 If a novice collector were to buy 10 fossils, how many of them would be fake? Any number from 0 to 10, dependant on the location the fossils came from, the seller, the type of fossil, what sort of fossil the novice is looking for etc. As repeated from the previous topic on this matter, there are too many variables to consider a valued figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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