JohnJ Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I spoke with the folks at UT and they are requesting that I bring the fossil and pictures of the location to them to inspect. I'm posting a picture of a fossil (not the trilobite I found) in the matrix where I found the specimen as requested. I also wanted to say that My wife says she remembers the fossil being in a section of a crack that was very tightly compressed matrix. I will also post a larger picture of the location where I found it with the next post. Thanks for the additional info and photos. That looks like the Jonah member in the Upper Cretaceous Austin Chalk. It is known to 'grainier' than most other members, and it contains a higher percentage of silica. That could account for your earlier description as "sandstone". Because of that characteristic, cracks can fill with grains eroded from upstream. The combination of this material, silt, and chalk does dry into a very hard redeposited matrix in those cracks. Another result of the higher silica content are gastropods and other fossils with "crystals" in any cavities they create. An example of which is in your site photo. I'm still shaking my head with a smile at how you spotted that little trilo. However, the uncharacteristic matrix deeply embedded in the fossil, your site photo, and the local fossils all indicate the logical conclusion that someone introduced your find into the creek. How and when are subject to imagination; but given the fact the creek backs up to many houses, and has a 'nature trail' along much of it, offers plenty of opportunity for it to occur. I think getting a good ID is the next chapter in this trilobite's story.... The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 ...I think getting a good ID is the next chapter in this trilobite's story.... As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, the large size and overall appearance suggest one of many possible Moroccan phacopids. If the eye lenses were present on one of the eyes, it might be possible to ID the species. With other key features worn away, no one could say anything definitive beyond an indeterminate phacopid, most likely from the Devonian of Morocco. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I have to say this is beginning to sound like a bigfoot story. The photos were deleted? Without believable photos of the fossil in situ there is little chance of convincing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bone2stone Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 It appears as if I created a "Monster" when I told him to bring it here. Personally I do think it had been placed for "someone" to find. There is an annual "Show and Sale" hosted by the Austin Paleo every year in Round Rock. (Usually in November) It may have been purchased there and seeded at your site by some prankster. They may have wanted someone else to find it, they would be the only ones who would know for sure. Then you came along and spoiled their surprise. I know first hand about people finding something that seems to be out of context. I have a horn coral out of the Eagleford shale. Not only unusual but not known. Jess B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I have to say this is beginning to sound like a bigfoot story. The photos were deleted? Without believable photos of the fossil in situ there is little chance of convincing us. In fairness to 'cds7189', he did say he found it over 8 months ago, and haven't we all had that "doh" moment when we deleted something we wanted? My personal favorite thing to do is hit the 'record' button too many times and not record a video in the field. I think he is being honest in his attempts to understand his find, but in the process, fell "through the looking glass" of 'artificial' circumstances. And, as he later said, his wife remembered that it was lodged in the tightly compressed matrix of a crack in the rock. Sharing such an anomaly with the Forum has surely caused a 'reset', or two in understanding how a trilobite could be found in that location. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Don't get me wrong - I am loving this thread. But without proper documentation this one will wind up forever in the ????? pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cds7189 Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 I have to say this is beginning to sound like a bigfoot story. The photos were deleted? Without believable photos of the fossil in situ there is little chance of convincing us. LOL I really owe no explanations and laugh at those who feel the need to make assumptions about me. I found the fissile by looking for a pyrite nodule that I had spotted a rust stain coming from the rock. I just haven't found them and still may. I had no ideal that a trilobite was even a big deal and figured that people like you guys had found hundreds of them in this area. Nevertheless the UT professor will determine the truth and I'm still proud to have found something that means so much. You guys are still awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanNREMTP Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 At least it wasn't another dinosaur egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I have to say I'm not getting any "vibe" that cds7189 is having "fun" at our expense. The fossil is clearly tremendously out of place, and the likely explanation is that it was planted by someone, but I believe cds7189 (likely not the intended recipient) was the one who happened to find it, and brought it here with honest intentions. Usually perpetrators of such pranks are more obviously loony tunes. It looks like the vinegar prep (mentioned in the first post) was a little too enthusiastic, removing much of the fine detail needed for a definitive species-level ID. That accounts for (and discounts) the etching I suggested earlier might indicate passage through a marine reptile stomach as a gastrolith. The trilobite is not "tiny" by phacopid standards, and looks (though I can't be certain) more like an inexpensive Moroccan "study grade" specimen than it does any species from any North American location I'm familiar with, though I'm not sure about excluding Oklahoma as a source. Certainly I have never seen or heard of any examples of articulated complete phacopids from Texas, prone or enrolled. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 ...Nevertheless the UT professor will determine the truth and I'm still proud to have found something that means so much... Unfortunately the UT professor does not have any better information than what we have collectively provided in this thread. In fact, for reliable information about trilobites, you should consult with serious trilobite specialists. Let me reiterate again, the large size of this phacopid is the most telling clue that this trilobite is from Morocco. The color is also consistent with a lot of the Moroccan material. They are very common throughout the Devonian strata of southern Morocco. The specimen you posted is a typical inexpensive example that can be found in abundance for a few bucks each at gem and fossil shows everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Our friend has done a fine job of telling us what he knows about his find, and he appreciates the conundrum we face in trying to explain it. More than that, he has contacted a pro to help sort it out. I an certain that everything he has presented was done in good faith, and out of a desire to know. Thanks, cds7189; I am enjoying this mystery quite a lot! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 ...I am enjoying this mystery quite a lot! The location might be mysterious, but the trilobite certainly isn't. The key morphological feature is the large size match with the typical Moroccan examples. Here's an image of another Moroccan phacopid with similar yellow-brown pigments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Btw, the proof is quite apparent by these photos. Phacopids with this appearance and a width larger than a 9 volt battery, come from Morocco by the thousands. At this point, I'm 99.9% certain it's an indeterminate phacopid from the Devonian of Morocco. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Thanks, Scott I've no doubt that it is not native to where our friend found it, and accept your expert opinion on its probable origin without hesitation. My "mystery" is how it got to where it was, and I wanted to voice my conviction that cds7189 is not punking us. He found something cool, and came to TFF to find out more about it. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Thanks, Scott I've no doubt that it is not native to where our friend found it, and accept your expert opinion on its probable origin without hesitation. My "mystery" is how it got to where it was, and I wanted to voice my conviction that cds7189 is not punking us. He found something cool, and came to TFF to find out more about it. Thanks! Here are some more garden variety Moroccan phacopids. It's difficult to order up "identical matches", but this batch shows examples with similar preservation and the yellow-brown pigments that are common for these trilobites from Morocco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceH Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) One of my best Sprifier brachs was found in the Cretaceous Pawpaw Formation. It must have washed down the hill from road base gravel above which is Pennsylvanian in origin. A genuine out-of-place fossil that's not a weather worn and river carried does not exist in a geologic vacuum. There would have to be evidence of more examples in the surrounding sediments. If others could be found it would obviously discredit the entire Geologic Column. If there was such a site that could be documented and proven it would be descended on by every paleontologist, geologist, and collector in the region and be talked about widely contrary to the Creationist notion that such a site would be "covered up". Yet after 100+ years of serious study of local geologies everywhere there has yet to be found such a site. Edited January 17, 2015 by LanceH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cds7189 Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 IPFOTY I do apologize and didn't intend to be insulting in any way by stating "the UT professor will determine the truth". I do want to state that I acknowledge that many paleontologist on this site are regarded as some of the most prolific and erudite scientist to be found. I did speak with 2 professors today at the University of Texas Jackson School of Geoscience, who both agreed and stated that I "definitely do have an enrolled trilobite". They also stated and agreed that the specimen was, as they put it "out of place". The origin of the trilobite I found couldn't be determined but they explained that the probability of it being Round Rock Texas was unlikely. I left the specimen with the professor at UT temporarily for further analysis. I will return to her office of Friday to retrieve the trilobite and as soon as I hear from her I will pass the information on to you guys. Sorry for what looks to be a wild-goose chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 No "wild-goose chase", at all, and no apology needed. It's been a good lesson in the rational approach to geology. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanNREMTP Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 We do enjoy a good mystery around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cds7189 Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I know it's taught me alot! Edited January 18, 2015 by cds7189 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I have very much enjoyed this thread, and appreciate the opportunity to learn from all of this. I have seen on TFF quite a few instances where people have mentioned that a certain fossil was "Out of place", or "Left behind to fool you", and so on...I've even had these words directed at me and it's not fun. I just can't imagine someone intentionally depositing a fossil, or throwing it in a river, to mess with someone else. People really walk around with fossils in their pockets, ready to play tricks on people? It's just crazy to think lol Cole~ Knowledge has three degrees-opinion, science, illumination. The means or instrument of the first is sense; of the second, dialectic; of the third, intuition. Plotinus 204 or 205 C.E., Egyptian Philosopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Phacops? Nice find and I don't think I have said Welcome to TFF yet either. I rarely find full trilobites let alone any trilobites at ALL :L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanNREMTP Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I was the recipient of this last year at my local spot. I found a piece of a shark tooth that was thrown down in the area so the kids in the groups could find a cool looking shark tooth. It took a bit of research to find out who did it and I really value the tooth now, even if it is not local. I can understand the reasoning in this case but I would have rather seen a more control way of doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cds7189 Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) You must understand that many people like my self are amateurs when it comes to geology/paleontology. If I find a fossilized sea shell I get the same excitement as finding a tooth or bone. I automatically assume that every fossil I find has been found time and time again by professionals who know there stuff. So posting a trilobite here has the same value to me as posting a cool fossilized sea biscuit like the this one. I'm sure that specimens have been found by laypersons like my self and they are never discovered by the paleontological society because of intimidation or the fear of ridicule. Edited January 18, 2015 by cds7189 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanNREMTP Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I'm an amateur as well. I've only been collecting for about a year so I know the feeling about finding every little neat fossil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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