sander Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Dear Forummembers, I have acquired two vertebra from a hadrosaur (sold to me as being centrosaur) and two Champsosaurus vertebrae, from a locality called "Claw Canyon". the fossils are from the Oldman Formation. Now there is a problem, I can't find out where this Claw Canyon is. I don't know which county in Alberta it is in. I need that information to lead me to a ID for the vert's on which dinosaurs they may be. They are probably from Brachylophosaurus, but Corythosaurus, Gryposaurus and Parasaurolophus have also been found in this formation, although most of those last three dinosaur specimens have been reassigned to the dinosaur park formation (cory and grypo both found once in oldman, parasaurolophus not at all now). Can someone tell me where this Claw Canyon is? Thanks in advance, Sander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rejd Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Hi Sander. Alberta is where I live and I have not heard of an area called Claw Canyon. Can you post some pics of the pieces in question? A fossil hunter needs sharp eyes and a keen search image, a mental template that subconsciously evaluates everything he sees in his search for telltale clues. -Richard E. Leakey http://prehistoricalberta.lefora.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I checked with my friend in who is an avid dinosaur collector in Calgary and he was not familiar with that name. I also looked at the fossilsites web page for Alberta and that name is listed for the Oldman formation but just says the location is in badlands area (see below). Typically when you are trying to ID a specimen a key part of the puzzle is knowing the formation which you have. There were a number of hadrosaurs in the Belly River Group (which includes the Oldman) as you've stated and trying to identify a specific species is going difficult if not impossible. I also included a map to give you a general idea of locality. http://www.fossilsites.com/STATES/AB.HTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opisthotriton Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 How did the bones leave Alberta in the first place? Isn't that illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 How did the bones leave Alberta in the first place? Isn't that illegal? I believe you are correct. ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rejd Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It depends on when they were found. If they were found before 1976 (I believe) and they have the disposition papers then it's fine. More than likely they were sold illegally. A fossil hunter needs sharp eyes and a keen search image, a mental template that subconsciously evaluates everything he sees in his search for telltale clues. -Richard E. Leakey http://prehistoricalberta.lefora.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Oh I didn't know that it is illegal to export fossils from Canada, Is it legal to collect stuff from there then? and the only information I could find was indeed this site: http://www.fossilsites.com/STATES/AB.HTM the 5th from below. also on this website the age is stated as Oldman Formation, just as on the cards that were supplied with the fossils. I did ask where the seller had got them from, he had them straight from the collector he said. Traded them against recent shells. The seller already had them for 15 years in his collection, but that is not long enough ago to make it to 1976. Maybe the collector moved out of Canada before 1976 and brought the fossils with him (maybe someone who went to Canada during ww2 and came back after it). But I don't know who this collector is and also the seller doesn't know who it was and what his whereabouts are. I was hoping the man would be on this forum, but since it might be illegal I doubt that if he is here he will answer to this post. Is it illegal to export fossils from alberta only or the whole of Canada? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 -112.710987, 51.459749 Location:Drumheller,AB The site i Mentioned also includes this at the righternmost row. looking at these coordinates it is almost in the centre of Drumheller, but in an area with many small gullies. maybe one of these is called Claw Canyon? the name has to come from somewhere. or probably it is jsut the location of Drumheller itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 nevermind my last post, according to this map: http://geology.about.com/library/bl/maps/albertamapsouth.jpg the Oldman Formation cannot be found at Drumheller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPlainPetrified Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Nope never heard of it and can't find it either. Probably a moniker someone put on it during a particular trip that made it into some literature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Dear Forum members, I have talked to the specialist in my country, but he said he wasn't specialised in hadrosaur and centrosaur vertebrae, so he didn't know from which animal these bones came, nor did he knew the location of Claw Canyon. Now I hope there is someone here who does know the difference between the two. Thanks in advance, Sander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 other views of the first vertebra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 more views of vertebra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 vertebra 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 final views of vertebra 2. this is from a juvenile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Can you please post additional images of the centrum. Need an end and side view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 photo 4, 5 and 7 are end (or begin) views, 2 and 6 are side views, altough 2 is a bit from underneath and not really 90 degrees from the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Trying to ID vertebra with just centrums is not the best practice. I've attached two images of caudal vertebra to help in your identification. In both images the vertebra on the left is hadrosaur and the other ceratopsian. The hadrosaur vertebra tends to be box shaped and taller than wide while the ceratopsian more rounded. I always like to hold specimens to make an ID since photos of similar looking specimens can be deceptive so these images may help you do the ID. I would lean to your first one being ceratopsian and hadrosaur on the second one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Thank you Troodon! Here are the two Champsosaurus vertebrae. the label said they are from Champsosaurus albertensis, but only natator and lindoei are present in the oldman fm. is it possible to distinguish which of these two I have got here? by the way I also have two phalanges from the Horseshoe canyon Formation of Alberta, from a 70's collection, but where they were exactly found is not stated. I will make a separate topic for those. Greetings, Sander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 My knowledge of Champsosaurus is very limited expect that I find lots of C. gigas collecting in the Hell Creek. There is a publication called "The Lepidosaurian Reptile Champsosaurus in North America" Monograph Volume 1: Paleontology by Bruce Erickson that looks at the skeleton in detail of the C. gigas. It also does a comparison to the two species you mentioned. Looks like the differences are suttle but no images to compare against and the reading was a bit above my head. They all look the same to me. :-) If you are interested in the publication I purchased mine at Abe Books.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 I guess there's not much difference between Centrosaurinae and Chasmosaurinae vertebrae? I'm trying to understand why the collector named them Centrosaurus vertebrae, it's not really a random guess to call them like that I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 To try to identify a centrum to a family of ceratopsian dinosaurs has to be difficult or nearly impossible unless it was collected with some diagnostic bones. So without additional evidence what you have is a Ceratopsian Centrum. When you try to ID a vertebra to a species a key diagnostic feature are the spines which are missing in your specimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Hi Troodon, I already thought so, It's such a pity that it is impossible to talk to the collector about why he named them like that and where this claw canyon exactly is. ah well, the two vertebrae will get the label of "Ceratopsidae" and "Saurolophidae" then. Thanks, Sander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Nope never heard of it and can't find it either. Probably a moniker someone put on it during a particular trip that made it into some literature. I don't know the area too well but that was my suspicion too... I've heard of a number of places that acquire unofficial names from the locals that you won't find on any map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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