Auspex Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I have a question. What makes these teeth vary in color from slate blue, red and blond? The mineral composition of the entombing soil/matrix. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Enjoy, Regards, Martijn Those are awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefootgirl Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 The mineral composition of the entombing soil/matrix. Thank you Auspex! In formal logic, a contradiction is the signal of defeat: but in the evolution of real knowledge, it marks the first step in progress toward victory. Alfred North Whithead 'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Enjoy, Regards, Martijn Incredible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martijn Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Thank you all for your comments! Here are the others, I just couldn't help myself Greetings from Norway! Martijn Qua patet orbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 hi quality stuff! me likes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Very nice teeth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 I have a question. What makes these teeth vary in color from slate blue, red and blond? As 'auspex' suggests, the mineral content of the entombing matrix. And, sometimes fossil teeth can become sun-bleached if they are not recovered promptly after being exposed by the dragline. Here's another color that is seen in teeth from the phosphate -- green. At least, olive-green. This is a "cryer" . . . a broken tooth that a collector brought to me. I didn't normally buy tooth fragments, but I really liked this color. I had to patch the tooth when I put it together -- it's still a cryer -- but, I still like it for its color. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 First off, great teeth everybody and an extra to Martijn's yellow beast. These are also in my gallery, but here are a dark olive green (with some pink in the bourlette) and a midnight blue megalodon as well as an orange Isurus hastalis (these are TOUGH) all from Bone Valley There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 you need to come up with some of those car-merchandising color names, like "tawny caribbean azure" or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I have a question. What makes these teeth vary in color from slate blue, red and blond? differential diagenesis in varying mineralogicalicious environwouldyoulikeament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn835 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 differential diagenesis in varying mineralogicalicious environwouldyoulikeament? With rocks in my head, and fossils in my heart.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefootgirl Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 differential diagenesis in varying mineralogicalicious environwouldyoulikeament? No mints for me thanks. But my brain hurts now. In formal logic, a contradiction is the signal of defeat: but in the evolution of real knowledge, it marks the first step in progress toward victory. Alfred North Whithead 'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 well, i actually was being serious. the whole is frequently greater, or at least different, from the sum of its parts, and there's no reason to continue the illusion many have that fossils are simply permineralized or replaced by whatever's near them. that isn't true any more than the fallacious statement, "you are what you eat". here's a great analogy that i just made up (i'ts not really a great analogy, but i haven't been arrogant for like, ten seconds, so it was time). the atoms in stuff might not change, but the chemistry and crystallizations of minerals and the molecules and ions and stuff definitely renoberate ad nauseum. so, actually this is a mechanical analogy which leaves out a lot, but still, hang on - after deep consideration for like ten more seconds, i've decided my analogy stunk so i'm not going to use it. you'll just have to study diagenesis til you throw up, but if you do throw up, complentate that regurgitate upon yon ground and ponder whether it's the sum of what you ate or if any of it has been chemically or structurally altered. hint, use your instincts, and your nose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 From the fossil collector's perspective, 'chemistry brings good things to death'. There was another thread lamenting the requisite course in chemistry. A rudimentary knowledge of chemistry, as it applies to fossil preservation, can enhance a collector's enjoyment of the hobby. I intend to begin to acquire such knowledge any day now... "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 These are four fragmentary bird bones from the phosphate mines of Khourigba, Morocco. The geologic formation is an Upper Cretaceous-eocene marine sedimentary phosphorite deposit, yielding carbonate-fluorapatite pellets. These bones came (reputedly, since I did not collect them) from the Upper Cretaceous strata (65-96 MYBP), which was deposited in a large tidal river delta. Only one of the bones has any potentially diagnostic features preserved; though I have not yet done so, ID as to family might be possible. The North African phosphates range from Late Cretaceous (Campanian or Early Maastrictian, depending on the author) to Middle Eocene (basal Lutetian) (Noubhani and Cappetta, 1997). The Maastrictian is much more productive with distinct lower and upper parts as determined by fossils. The Early and Late Paleocene are also well-represented as is the Early Eocene (Ypresian), the latter divided into lower and upper parts. Most of the Otodus teeth you see at shows come out of the Early Eocene, especially the bigger ones, and specifically from the lower part of the Ypresian (also found in the Late Paleocene). The French and Moroccans have named the various beds alphanumerically by locality but most fossils you see at shows are not accompanied with good site data. A few collectors do keep track and provide great labels. The recent finds of archaeocete jaws and teeth and Carcharocles auriculatus teeth that are said to come from Morocco present a puzzle. I do not think that they are from a phosphate layer (as the shark teeth that come out of the basal Lutetian are quite worn and some of the auriculatus are well-preserved) and may be Late Eocene in age. The matrix is a reddish sandstone. I'm going to see if I can find a paper on that. Anyway, your bird bones are interesting especially if they are Cretaceous. I would not be surprised if they are actually from the Early Eocene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilselachian Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 The recent finds of archaeocete jaws and teeth and Carcharocles auriculatus teeth that are said to come from Morocco present a puzzle. I do not think that they are from a phosphate layer (as the shark teeth that come out of the basal Lutetian are quite worn and some of the auriculatus are well-preserved) and may be Late Eocene in age. The matrix is a reddish sandstone. I'm going to see if I can find a paper on that. I don't have much definitive information to add to Siteseer's comments re the C. auriculatus teeth. However, I have heard they are from an Eocene bed in the coastal area of Dakhla, Morocco (Western Sahara). I now see a number of other eocene age shark teeth coming from perhaps this same area. If others members have additional/better info re these teeth - please post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Anyway, your bird bones are interesting especially if they are Cretaceous. I would not be surprised if they are actually from the Early Eocene. I would not be a bit surprised either. Unless the matrix contains micro guide fossils (and I suddenly become able to ID them), they will never be dated with certainty. I have since been able to rule out the one bone as having come from an enantiornithine, which would have placed it before the K/T. <sigh> "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I don't have much definitive information to add to Siteseer's comments re the C. auriculatus teeth. However, I have heard they are from an Eocene bed in the coastal area of Dakhla, Morocco (Western Sahara). I now see a number of other eocene age shark teeth coming from perhaps this same area.If others members have additional/better info re these teeth - please post. I just acquired an Alopias alabamensis, Galeocerdo eaglesomi and Hemipristis curvatus all from Dakhla and all being Eocene in age. I'd personally like to know where the Miocene teeth from the Western Sahara are coming from There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I would not be a bit surprised either. Unless the matrix contains micro guide fossils (and I suddenly become able to ID them), they will never be dated with certainty.I have since been able to rule out the one bone as having come from an enantiornithine, which would have placed it before the K/T. <sigh> Oh yeah, that's a bummer. The only bird bones I have seen from the Moroccan phosphates are a few pseudodontorn beak sections (and some thin-walled bone fragments - maybe bird) from the Early Eocene. For years they were sold as "fish jaws" until someone said, "Uh-oh." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I just acquired an Alopias alabamensis, Galeocerdo eaglesomi and Hemipristis curvatus all from Dakhla and all being Eocene in age. I'd personally like to know where the Miocene teeth from the Western Sahara are coming from I have also seen two small teeth that look like an early Carcharhinus (similar to teeth you might see from the Tallahatta Formation of Alabama) within the matrix of an archaeocete jaw section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haddy Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 The first dinosaur was found in NJ in "marl." NJ has a lot of "marl pits" that were mined before / around 1900 for use as fertilizer. The NJ pits were replaced in importance by the phosphate mines in the South -- this is from a 1912 book: The greensand marls of New Jersey are rich in glauconite, formed by taking up potash from waters. The composition of the glauconite or greensand is a calcium carbonate, sulphate, phosphate, with quartz sand, iron phosphate and shells, and the marl ranges from 1 to 3.8 per cent, phosphoric acid and from 3.5 to 6.3 per cent, potash. Thirty years ago the material was used locally as a fertilizer and proved very valuable. Its use is now on a very small scale, and it cannot compete with concentrated fertilizers. http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA619&...amp;output=text I haven't found anything much --yet-- but live near this site (where the Hadrosaurus foulkii was found): In the summer of 1858, Victorian gentleman and fossil hobbyist William Parker Foulke was vacationing in Haddonfield, New Jersey, when he heard that twenty years previous, workers had found gigantic bones in a local marl pit. Foulke spent the the late summer and fall directing a crew of hired diggers shin deep in gray slime. Foulke had discovered the first nearly-complete skeleton of a dinosaur -- an event that would rock the scientific world and forever change our view of natural history. Marl was a mineral-rich, clay-like substance that was the nineteenth century's leading farm fertilizer. The residue of an ancient Cretaceous sea bottom, it was dug from pits and transported to nearby fields to be plowed into the soil. Diggers had often hit and heaved aside fossilized bones, teeth, seashells and petrified wood as they worked. But immediately after the Hadrosaurus foulkii discovery, the Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia sent a flier to area marl pit operators asking them to alert the Academy when any fossil bones were struck. http://www.levins.com/bwars.shtml The New Jersey marls are now understood to be late Cretaceous marine sediments deposited along the Atlantic coast of Cretaceous North America. They contain a rich fauna of marine fossils, including: clams; oysters; snails; sharks; rays; bony fish; ammonoids;and squids, but the remains of land-dwelling animals like dinosaurs are rarely found in them. Although an occasional dinosaur bone fragment is infrequently uncovered, Leidy's find of a nearly complete large dinosaur skeleton has never been repeated in eastern North America. Apparently his specimen derived from an animal whose intact carcass was washed out to sea. Such an event must have been as rare then as it is now. The odds of finding an intact dinosaur skeleton in these beds can thus not be much different than winning the New Jersey state lottery. There are few paleontologists who don't know what the term "Leidy's luck" means. http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/geology/chamber/leidy.html There is still a working mine near Lord Piney; I think it's the last one in NJ. Many of the others have become new housing tracts. The Haddonfield area is now park, although it was somewhat neglected for many years (they erected a sewage treatment plant there -- now closed!). You can also see some marl in the walls of the Monmouth County creeks (Big Brook, etc). http://www.njfossils.net/cover.html This is an interesting thread -- I wasn't a member when it was started but thought I'd add to it when it came up yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilselachian Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I just acquired an Alopias alabamensis, Galeocerdo eaglesomi and Hemipristis curvatus all from Dakhla and all being Eocene in age. I'd personally like to know where the Miocene teeth from the Western Sahara are coming from Northern Those were the Eocene age teeth to which I made reference. If Dakhla is the source of the Eocene material, like you, I now would be most interested in knowing the area of the Miocene age material. However, I would guess if this material continues to enter the market, some locality info will likely surface. FS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 As 'auspex' suggests, the mineral content of the entombing matrix. And, sometimes fossil teeth can become sun-bleached if they are not recovered promptly after being exposed by the dragline.Here's another color that is seen in teeth from the phosphate -- green. At least, olive-green. This is a "cryer" . . . a broken tooth that a collector brought to me. I didn't normally buy tooth fragments, but I really liked this color. I had to patch the tooth when I put it together -- it's still a cryer -- but, I still like it for its color. Harry, I just saw a tooth that color last week while in the Gainesville area. It was about that size with about a 3/8" chip out of one cutting edge. It still looked good, having a slightly richer olive-green crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXHunter Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Also have a TON of Bacculites... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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