ReeseF Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Hello! I am travelling to Morocco in a few weeks, where I am visiting larger cities (Casablanca, Marrakech) as well as Erfoud and Ouarzazate, and I have a few questions about purchasing fossils while I am there. First, what should I expect to pay ? I am looking at Devonian trilobites as well as Kem-Kem dinosaur pieces, and I am wondering what prices will be for both common and rarer high quality trilobites and middle-of-the-road dinosaur fossils. Where should I purchase them? I will be in Erfoud for only two days, but I will be in large cities for a bit longer. Would it be best to purchase them where they're collected? Lastly, I am leaving Morocco by ferry, and ultimately heading back home via Charles de Gaulle Airport. Are there any problems with Moroccan, Spanish, or French customs? Thank you for any advice! Reese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runner64 Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 You should ask triloant! I believe he's actually in Morocco right now, he might be of some assistance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Runner, that is just what I was going to tell him. Intelligent minds think alike. Here is a link to the posts he has been running. I would PM him. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/54618-anyone-want-fossils-from-morocco/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Hi, Reese, I'm new here, but I do know a fair bit about collecting and buying fossils in Morocco. Prices are rarely fixed here, and when they are, they're actually not, as it is always possible to haggle. The starting price is very variable depending on how wealthy you look, what sort of a day the dealers having and whether or not he likes you. Ensure that you do haggle, many tourists are reluctant to do so, and will not come away with a bargain, as often the prices will start close to what you might pay in Europe or the US anyway. Do not suggest a starting price, get the dealer to begin and then start at 20-50% of what they say, depending on how much you want to pay. It is a good idea to practice with a couple of pieces you don't want first, then refuse the final offer before casually saying 'and this one?' and begin bargaining for the one you really want, but never letting the dealer know you are overly concerned about this specimen. If you show too much excitement or enthusiasm, you are doomed. Tell them you are an expert on fossils and this is not a very good example of this species and point out faults, be they real or imaginary with the piece. When you get to the price you are prepared to pay, look indecisive and knock off another few dirham and say final offer. They will normally go for this, but if not you can always pay the extra with a big sigh. Remember that even in the Moroccan towns and cities, particularly tourist spots like Marrakech and Casablanca fakes abound and are often very difficult to spot. The sellers often don't know themselves as they may have been scammed by the original dealer. Many genuine fossils have restoration work done or will be fixed onto a non original matrix and others have detail etched or added on. In the fossil cities, like Erfoud and Ouarzazate, you still have to be careful as here the fakes are made, but at least prices are usually cheaper, though they know many fossil hunters, rather than casual tourists, come here, and will still charge high if you show interest in anything. Obviously, if you can get to the actual fossil sites, prices are much cheaper and you are more likely to find genuine articles, though maybe fewer prepped pieces. Lastly, I've never had a problem taking fossils in or out of the country by ferry, but I don't actually know what laws may apply. Hope this message is of some help and I'm not too late. 8 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeseF Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Hi, Reese, I'm new here, but I do know a fair bit about collecting and buying fossils in Morocco. Prices are rarely fixed here, and when they are, they're actually not, as it is always possible to haggle. The starting price is very variable depending on how wealthy you look, what sort of a day the dealers having and whether or not he likes you. Ensure that you do haggle, many tourists are reluctant to do so, and will not come away with a bargain, as often the prices will start close to what you might pay in Europe or the US anyway. Do not suggest a starting price, get the dealer to begin and then start at 20-50% of what they say, depending on how much you want to pay. It is a good idea to practice with a couple of pieces you don't want first, then refuse the final offer before casually saying 'and this one?' and begin bargaining for the one you really want, but never letting the dealer know you are overly concerned about this specimen. If you show too much excitement or enthusiasm, you are doomed. Tell them you are an expert on fossils and this is not a very good example of this species and point out faults, be they real or imaginary with the piece. When you get to the price you are prepared to pay, look indecisive and knock off another few dirham and say final offer. They will normally go for this, but if not you can always pay the extra with a big sigh. Remember that even in the Moroccan towns and cities, particularly tourist spots like Marrakech and Casablanca fakes abound and are often very difficult to spot. The sellers often don't know themselves as they may have been scammed by the original dealer. Many genuine fossils have restoration work done or will be fixed onto a non original matrix and others have detail etched or added on. In the fossil cities, like Erfoud and Ouarzazate, you still have to be careful as here the fakes are made, but at least prices are usually cheaper, though they know many fossil hunters, rather than casual tourists, come here, and will still charge high if you show interest in anything. Obviously, if you can get to the actual fossil sites, prices are much cheaper and you are more likely to find genuine articles, though maybe fewer prepped pieces. Lastly, I've never had a problem taking fossils in or out of the country by ferry, but I don't actually know what laws may apply. Hope this message is of some help and I'm not too late. Thank you very much for the advice--the haggling tips are great to hear! I will keep an eye out for fakes, although I won't spend an amount I couldn't live without on pieces I am not positive of . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon.rocks Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Here is a link to the posts he has been running. I would PM him. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/54618-anyone-want-fossils-from-morocco/ I just read that post, can`t comment there, so a word of advice here. You can get fossils in Morocco relatively cheap, up to 50% cheaper as in western markets, but don`t expect bargain deals for high grade real stuff. If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is and you are being ripped off one way or the other. Moroccans are well aware of the market prices worldwide. Follow Reese`s advice and ensure that you do haggle! For buying fossils I would stay away from tourists spots and buy In the fossil cities, like Erfoud. Lowers the chance of being ripped off by scamers and dealers, that "are not aware of what they are selling". Note that even genuine fossils can have parts of restoration, but there are a lot of 100$ fakes around also (which are easy to spot if you are an experienced collector and once you know what to look for). Eduacate yourself about fakes and repairs before traveling or buying, there are articles about fake fossils online and FB groups, to avoid topics like "are these trilos real?" in the future... Or for example, read the topic "Anyone wants fossils from Morocco?" and especially check the photos of trilobites in that post - most of the bugs and I guess also some other fossils TriloAnt buys in Morocco are fake, composites art works or damaged/poorly preped, real but butchered specimens (quick preped) with repairs. These are usually sold for cheap in western markets aswell, so when you pay 20$-40$ only for a trilobite (or something that you think would usually costs hunderds or thousands of dollars, lol), there is a good chance you are paying for low quality fast preped common specimen or being ripped off and actually not getting a good deal, as you think! You could probably pay less buying from an honest seller on ebay in some cases... If you read the topic "Anyone wants fossils from Morocco?", you will notice a comment: "I have some doubts on authenticity regarding a few of the trilobites. These look like air bubbles to me..." and TriloAnt`s reply: "Haha good observation . But i personaly prepped that myself." Among other specimens, I am 100% certain that that "psychopyge elegans" wanna be is a fake and not preped by TriloAnt, unless he lives in Morocco! There are good deals to be made in Morocco, but be cautios about what you are buying! For example, trilobites in pizza`s are almost always fake or composites, I would stay away from anything that looks suspicious. Real fossils will have details, in case of trilobtes, eye lenses, tinny details on the exoskeleton like tiny spines, bumps or lines. Otodus and Mosasaurus teeth are abdundand, no point in faking, but also plenty of specimens with minimal repairs, usually on the root corners. Smaller teeth should also be no problem to find authentic for cheap. Beware of the Mosasaurus jaws, most are fake composites! A. Sokolovi teeth are usually chep when damaged or composites. Megs are not as common, I would be suprised if you can get a large good quality unrestored specimen. Ammonites, starfish, belemnites are abdundand, sometimes polished and composed in tables, sinks etc. The heteromorph type uncoiled Moroccan ammonites in the market are usually all composites... Anyway, don`t trust stories like this: "my pleasure to be able to help so many fellow members and fossil enthusiasts aquire top rate specimens for pennies on the dollar. I always try to help fellow collectors from being ripped off. Its gotten to a point that unless you are wealthy, most people can not afford to collect." And note that you usually get what you pay for, butchered and fake fossils for cheap, high quality carefully preped specimens for a reasonable price. There is a difference, if you spend a trilobite preping 1h or 20h, a difference which reflects in the price aswell. Fossils that take 20 hours or even up to 100 hours of careful prep and are preped in good quality will never be sold for 40$... 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor Lover Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I just read that post, can`t comment there, so a word of advice here. You can get fossils in Morocco relatively cheap, up to 50% cheaper as in western markets, but don`t expect bargain deals for high grade real stuff. If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is and you are being ripped off one way or the other. Moroccans are well aware of the market prices worldwide. Follow Reese`s advice and ensure that you do haggle! For buying fossils I would stay away from tourists spots and buy In the fossil cities, like Erfoud. Lowers the chance of being ripped off by scamers and dealers, that "are not aware of what they are selling". Note that even genuine fossils can have parts of restoration, but there are a lot of 100$ fakes around also (which are easy to spot if you are an experienced collector and once you know what to look for). Eduacate yourself about fakes and repairs before traveling or buying, there are articles about fake fossils online and FB groups, to avoid topics like "are these trilos real?" in the future... Or for example, read the topic "Anyone wants fossils from Morocco?" and especially check the photos of trilobites in that post - most of the bugs and I guess also some other fossils TriloAnt buys in Morocco are fake, composites art works or damaged/poorly preped, real but butchered specimens (quick preped) with repairs. These are usually sold for cheap in western markets aswell, so when you pay 20$-40$ only for a trilobite (or something that you think would usually costs hunderds or thousands of dollars, lol), there is a good chance you are paying for low quality fast preped common specimen or being ripped off and actually not getting a good deal, as you think! You could probably pay less buying from an honest seller on ebay in some cases... If you read the topic "Anyone wants fossils from Morocco?", you will notice a comment: "I have some doubts on authenticity regarding a few of the trilobites. These look like air bubbles to me..." and TriloAnt`s reply: "Haha good observation . But i personaly prepped that myself." Among other specimens, I am 100% certain that that "psychopyge elegans" wanna be is a fake and not preped by TriloAnt, unless he lives in Morocco! There are good deals to be made in Morocco, but be cautios about what you are buying! For example, trilobites in pizza`s are almost always fake or composites, I would stay away from anything that looks suspicious. Real fossils will have details, in case of trilobtes, eye lenses, tinny details on the exoskeleton like tiny spines, bumps or lines. Otodus and Mosasaurus teeth are abdundand, no point in faking, but also plenty of specimens with minimal repairs, usually on the root corners. Smaller teeth should also be no problem to find authentic for cheap. Beware of the Mosasaurus jaws, most are fake composites! A. Sokolovi teeth are usually chep when damaged or composites. Megs are not as common, I would be suprised if you can get a large good quality unrestored specimen. Ammonites, starfish, belemnites are abdundand, sometimes polished and composed in tables, sinks etc. The heteromorph type uncoiled Moroccan ammonites in the market are usually all composites... Anyway, don`t trust stories like this: "my pleasure to be able to help so many fellow members and fossil enthusiasts aquire top rate specimens for pennies on the dollar. I always try to help fellow collectors from being ripped off. Its gotten to a point that unless you are wealthy, most people can not afford to collect." And note that you usually get what you pay for, butchered and fake fossils for cheap, high quality carefully preped specimens for a reasonable price. There is a difference, if you spend a trilobite preping 1h or 20h, a difference which reflects in the price aswell. Fossils that take 20 hours or even up to 100 hours of careful prep and are preped in good quality will never be sold for 40$... That is some really good advice. "Or speak to the earth, and let it teach you" Job 12:8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Second that. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with serious reservations about that offer. Edited July 17, 2015 by Fred Paleo database, information and community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 There is some very good advice in this thread. I agree with the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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