ericav Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Hi -- I found this tooth in a creek in Gainesville, Florida -- anyone know what it is? (I'm new to this....) Thanks! --Erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Hi -- I found this tooth in a creek in Gainesville, Florida -- anyone know what it is? (I'm new to this....) Thanks! --Erica Welcome to the forum, Erica. Your tooth appears to be a carnivore carnasial tooth. An uncommon find in the creeks. For identifying teeth, it is most helpful to show both sides plus the occlusal surface (the meetingplace of upper and lower teeth) http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh-Man Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Welcome to the forum, Erica.Your tooth appears to be a carnivore carnasial tooth. An uncommon find in the creeks. For identifying teeth, it is most helpful to show both sides plus the occlusal surface (the meetingplace of upper and lower teeth) Is there anyway to narrow it down at least to feline, canine, other? I guess a couple of more pix would help. Cool find Erica! What is geology? "Rocks for Jocks!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericav Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 Hi -- Oh yes, I have more pictures... just didn't want to overdo it, first time on the forum and all... Thank you for your enthusiasm & help with identification! Erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmorefossil Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Hi welcome to the forum that's one nice tooth I would go with harry on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmorefossil Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 No don't worry about posting to many pictures the more the better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I'll go with Canis, likely an M1. Since it was found in a creek there's no telling the age of the layer it came from so I won't venture any farther than that. -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericav Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 I'll go with Canis, likely an M1. Since it was found in a creek there's no telling the age of the layer it came from so I won't venture any farther than that.-Joe Neat! I look forward to learning more. You are right, that there is no way to tell what strata it came from - the creek bottom was all sand, and I was hunting in areas on the bottom where debris had gathered from upstream. And among the broken glass and waterlogged hickory nuts, I found this tooth (and a bunch of small sharks teeth). So, somewhere upstream in Hogtown Creek, NW Gainesville (I was right in town - between 8th & 16th Ave). But even if I don't know where exactly it came from, is it possible to know how old the fossil must be at a minimum? Or a range of possible ages? Thanks again, Erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Hi Erica and Welcome to the forum. I am new at this but I going with canis only because that's what I have been reading about lately. Pic you will never post to many. We like pic almost as much as we like fossils. Nice find I think you should head back and see what else is there. Seldom Galveston Island 32 miles long 2 miles wide 134 bars 23 liquor stores any questions? Evolution is Chimp Change. Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain! "I like to listen. I have learned a great deal from listening carefully. Most people never listen." Ernest Hemingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRS MICROPTERUS101 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 wow that is cool all i ever find are crabs and clams not that im complaining lol look forward to seeing more of your finds :gator: :gator: :gator: i came saw drooled and collected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Welcome to the board from a fellow G'ville creek hunter! That's certainly not a common find in Gainesville. Congrats on the great find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericav Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 Welcome to the board from a fellow G'ville creek hunter! That's certainly not a common find in Gainesville. Congrats on the great find. Thanks everyone for the warm welcome! I am very happy to be part of such an enthusiastic community of paleotreasure hunters! If I find out more about what this tooth is (from someone other than a member of this forum) I'll be sure to post the info! Erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I'll go with Canis, likely an M1. Since it was found in a creek there's no telling the age of the layer it came from so I won't venture any farther than that.-Joe Er . . . the upper carnasial of a canid is premolar 4 (P4), not M1. Canis is a reasonable guess. Judging by the erosion of the roots, the dentin exposed on the occlusal surface eroded away faster than the enamel, leaving the cratered effect. Here's another canid that wore out its carnasial. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericav Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 Er . . . the upper carnasial of a canid is premolar 4 (P4), not M1.Canis is a reasonable guess. Judging by the erosion of the roots, the dentin exposed on the occlusal surface eroded away faster than the enamel, leaving the cratered effect. Here's another canid that wore out its carnasial. Wow! This is so exciting! Thank you so much, Harry, for generously providing me with information and photos. Now I understand how it could be a carnasial tooth and be so flattened. So, would this mean it is from an older animal? This tooth is about 1.7 cm across -- the one in the picture looks like it is about 3.5 cm. So if the tooth I have is from a mature animal, then it is probably from a smaller species, yes? Is there a way to know what species is could be? And / or Is there a way to know what geological era it may have been from? Thanks again, Erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericav Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 of course it would be very exciting to find a fossil tooth of the biggest canine that ever lived... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Actually, considering the triple root I was leaning a little more toward the Canis M1 rather than the carnassial, which is indeed P4. -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 of course it would be very exciting to find a fossil tooth of the biggest canine that ever lived... Erica, Erica, Erica! Have you been cheating, researching on the Internet? I guess that's how you know that Epicyon haydeni IS the biggest canid ever (in Florida, at least). Notice I said "canid" because the convention requires that a member of the Family CANIDAE is a canid. ("Canine" is generally used for a tooth position in many different animals.) So, congratulations on your find, and congratulations on all you have learned as a consequence of your find! Objects do drive learning. :applause: http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Quite a nice find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericav Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 Oh, yes, these days learning IS learning from the internet. (which, don't forget, is how I met you characters in the first place). Combined with getting your feet wet, of course. -- Erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy 55 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Erica, I would say that you made a great creek find WTG. I also will have to agree with Harry on that. Very cool Erica ! We will do a hunt soon.. say hello to Nicole for me. It's my bone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericav Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 Hey Mike - Great to hear from you! Yes, I definitely want to go out again. So do you have any more details for me? How do I find out what species it could have been? Is it possible to know how old the fossil is, just based on it being a big canid in Florida? thanks for the applause, but really... just lucky! Erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh-Man Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Harry, Thanks for the follow up info. You are certainly part of the internet research now, too!! As for Canid vice canine, I only ever had MARINE biology so not much exposure to land dwelling stuff... O Erica, Erica, Erica! Have you been cheating, researching on the Internet? I guess that's how you know that Epicyon haydeni IS the biggest canid ever (in Florida, at least). Notice I said "canid" because the convention requires that a member of the Family CANIDAE is a canid. ("Canine" is generally used for a tooth position in many different animals.)So, congratulations on your find, and congratulations on all you have learned as a consequence of your find! Objects do drive learning. :applause: What is geology? "Rocks for Jocks!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericav Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Thanks everyone for the interest & support! I've sent an email to the vertebrate paleontology folks at the Florida Museum of Natural History. They have a fossil ID 'service' (free for a fossil or two, and they request donations to their research program if you ask for a bunch of help). They specialize in fossils from Florida and the Caribbean. Here's their website: Florida Museaum of Natural History Fossil ID Website I will let you know what they say! Erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericav Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 OK -- fossil ID from Richard Hulbert at the Florida Museum of Natural History -- It is a worn premolar of Bison antiquus from the Pleistocene. From the indentations it matches the premolar pretty exactly (he showed me an intact lower jaw). The small 'third root' is just an abnormality particular to this individual. So, an extinct bison species. Neat. Erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Here are some coyote teeth so that you can make some comparisons. I will post these in my album as well. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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