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GeschWhat

Interesting coral - Morocco

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doushantuo

For the record:Mr Hans the Loser certainly knows his corals

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GeschWhat
5 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Could it be found in through the Upper Creataceous to the Middle Eocene?

Seems to me there are a lot of animals that have changed little over time - horseshoe crabs and gars for instance.

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doushantuo

Similar to Cycloseris Wellsii,but that's NOT an taxonomic asessement

Below:

Cunnolitids from the relevant Tethyan carbonate platforms (El-Asaad,1990,Jo.Afr.Earth Sc)bercofhimages.jpg

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Pachy
10 hours ago, doushantuo said:

For the record:Mr Hans the Loser certainly knows his corals

 

Yes, he certainly knows his corals. I know who Hans the Loser really is. Anyone with an interest in fossil corals would know who he is. In addition, the pseudonym is very clear.

Having said that, I don´t think there is any problem in raising the reasonable doubts that everyone can see.

As you have done with this:

 

"Similar to Cycloseris Wellsii,but that's NOT an taxonomic asessement

Below:

Cunnolitids from the relevant Tethyan carbonate platforms (El-Asaad,1990,Jo.Afr.Earth Sc)"

 

He will answer the questions, the opinions and the doubts, if he wants.

 

 

 

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doushantuo

His alias is "slightly" perspicaceous.

I read stuff that hails from Barcelona,BTWB)

I do not raise doubts,and i tend to stay away from gastropod/anthozoan/selachian trilobite taxonomy.

 

 

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Pachy
8 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

His alias is "slightly" perspicaceous.

I read stuff that hails from Barcelona,BTWB)

I do not raise doubts,and i tend to stay away from gastropod/anthozoan taxonomy

 

I do raise doubts.

I am going to allow myself to give my opinion about his anterior post. The materials you present have nothing to do with what we are dealing with here, apart from the more or less reasonable similarity.

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Pachy

And lateral shots of the Spanish Bartonian materials.

Maybe my hands are firmer than yours,Tidgy's Dad .:)

DSCN9143.JPG

DSCN9136.JPG

DSCN9133.JPG

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abyssunder

In the following picture is clearly visible that Cunnolites has a hemispherical  not so flattened shape in lateral view. The specimens in question and those from the comparative images posted in the topic have a totally different shape. I would rule out Cunnolites / Cyclolites.

 

2023901_NatEu_HNHM_Palaeontology_HNHM_PAL_0039_jpg.thumb.jpeg.aaa931e874e1d733b938407c0ded9d8a.jpeg

 

Cretaceous solitary corals (Cunnolites)

These small solitary coral have some cm in diameter and lived in the deeper, tranquil part of the Cretaceous Sea. They had a flattened shape, to avoid sinking into the soft
sediment. These forms, originally known as Cyclolites are recently classified into the genus Cunnolites. The once diverse group went to extinct already in the Eocene. The
similarly shaped extant Fungia corals are not closely related to these Cretaceous forms. The illustrated specimens were collected from the Bakony Mountains, in the
vicinity of Sümeg.

 

Provenance

    Identifier: HNHM-PAL_M.63.1806
    Institution: Hungarian Natural History Museum
    Creator: Főzy, I.

 

link to source

 

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Pachy

abyssunder  posted information stating:  "These forms, originally known as Cyclolites are recently classified into the genus Cunnolites."

 

I can assure you that Hans The Loser will not agree with this.

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Pachy

WOW, this will help, yes. A lot.

Good presentation from the specimen.

Similar to Funginellastraea. Cretaceous age is a problem. I agree with Hans The Loser, it is necessary to prepare materials to reach a conclusion.

And my congratulations to the administrators-moderators. Good job.

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GeschWhat
1 hour ago, Pachy said:

it is necessary to prepare materials to reach a conclusion

Does this mean I should prep the specimen to remove the remaining matrix?

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Tidgy's Dad

Maybe we could tentatively push the range back to Upper Cretaceous, 

Or else these rocks in Morocco and Spain are actually Eocene in age and not Cretaceous? 

See  

 

The beds are clearly close together. 

 

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Pachy
24 minutes ago, GeschWhat said:

Does this mean I should prep the specimen to remove the remaining matrix?

No. That means getting thin sections or at least polished sections to be able to observe the internal skeletal elements of the specimens.

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Pachy
21 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Maybe we could tentatively push the range back to Upper Cretaceous, 

Or else these rocks in Morocco and Spain are actually Eocene in age and not Cretaceous? 

See  

 

The beds are clearly close together. 

 

Those materials and those rocks in Spain are of Eocene age. I know that area and those materials. As well as their age.
What I don´t know is your area in Morocco, the age of those materials and those lands you must tell us. You report Cretaceous age and that is a problem for Funginellastraea.
If you tell me Eocene age for your materials, I'll tell you Funginellastraea. But if you says Cretaceous, I can´t do it.

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Tidgy's Dad

This area has certain Cretaceous fossils. 

Dinosaurs are found here. 

But at exactly which level everything comes from in these deep gorges is very uncertain. 

i am not aware that any of the fossils here have been considered Eocene, but this is Morocco and there is still so much that has not been properly studied. 

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Pachy

The contacts between Eocene and Upper Cretaceous are very frequent in my area. I collect corals from the Eocene in an area and at a very short distance I pick up Cretaceous sea urchins.
Perhaps something similar may happen in your area.

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Tidgy's Dad

it's a long way from my area, but you may be right. 

However, I have never seen a certain Eocene fossil found here. 

But in Morocco these beds often continue from Cretaceous though early Eocene with some of  the same species found within both, see the phosphate beds where some species become extinct at the boundary and others persevere or the Moroccan Sahara where the same occurs. 

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doushantuo

going back to an old remark made by Peat:

fernariistlanthc.jpg

fernariistlanthc.jpg

fernariistlanthc.jpg

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doushantuo

fernariistlanthc.jpg

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Pachy

About the Spanish Bartonian material.

No fulturae, no Fungia, no Cycloseris.

1b.JPG

2b.JPG

3b.JPG

4b.JPG

DSCN9134-1.jpg

4a1.jpg

Sawn edges and aligned granules. Funginellastraea.

So far what gives the level "I have touched many of these bugs and I have studied the subject " (Superior amateur level) in terms of laterals and edges of septa.;)

 

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Pachy

I don´t know if it matches the area of the specimens, but the platform extends through Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco. In case it is helpful.

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